March 2, 1964
President Johnson and Robert McNamara, 11:00 AM
President Johnson: Do you think it’s a mistake to explain what I’m saying now about Vietnam, and what we’re faced with?
McNamara: Well, I do think, Mr. President, that it would be wise for you to say as little as possible. The frank answer is we don’t know what’s going on out there. The signs I see coming through the cables are disturbing signs—poor morale in Vietnamese forces, poor morale in the armed forces, disunity, tremendous amount of coup planning against [Nguyen] Khanh. About what you’d expect in the situation that’s had—
President Johnson: Well, then, why don’t we take some pretty offensive steps pretty quickly then? Why don’t we commend Khanh on his operation and try to prop him up? Why don’t we raise the salary of their soldiers to improve that morale instead of waiting a long time? Why don’t we do some of these things that are inclined to bolster them?
McNamara: Well, I’m not sure that they here—
President Johnson: I sure as hell don’t want to get in the position of [Henry Cabot] Lodge recommending to me, the one thing he recommended is "please give us a little more pay for our soldiers," and we turned them down.
McNamara: Oh, no. We’ve done that.
President Johnson: We haven’t acted. We said we’re going to wait until you go out there.
McNamara: [confidently] Well, he knows that there’s money for that. There’s no problem on that issue.
President Johnson: Then why don’t we clear it up so we get him answered? Now I think that politically—I’m not a military strategist—but I think that as long as we’ve got him there, and he makes recommendations, and we act on them, particularly if we act favorably, then we’re not in too bad a condition politically.
But when I think that he wires us and says, "The only damn thing that I want you to do is give them an increase in pay because the morale is terrible," we say, "Well, wait." Then if something happens in between, I think we are caught with our britches down. And I would give some—
McNamara: That raise has gone through.
President Johnson: No, we told them that we’d wait, by wire.
McNamara: No, I think that the raise has gone to the soldiers; the Vietnamese people are getting the pay. I think it was the first pay increase, I think, was to be the latter part of February. The question is—and the only question if there is any waiting at all—is whether AID should increase the payment to South Vietnamese government to offset the increase.
President Johnson: Well, then, we ought to decide that, because . . . You ought to read that wire that he sent us. That’s the best wire we got, and I replied back.
McNamara: I remember it.
President Johnson: And we ought to take that wire you sent to Khanh as soon as he took over—for me—and then got his reply back, and then let’s check on it again, and see what he’s doing.
McNamara: I’ll do that.
President Johnson: Let’s make a record on this thing, Bob, so we—
McNamara: I agree with you on that. As a matter of fact—
President Johnson: I’d like to have a wire out there to him nearly every day or so on something, either approving what Lodge is recommending or either trying to boost them up to do a little something extra.
McNamara: Mm-hmm.
President Johnson: Now, I’ve been rather impressed from the news reports of this fellow’s social consciousness, his getting out in the villages and talking to the people, offering them something that they claim that the Nhus and Diems never gave them and that this other outfit that took over didn’t have time to give them. And I was rather encouraged by Lodge’s cable of yesterday in which he [Khanh] said that he showed more efficiency than either one of them.
McNamara: That’s right. That I agree with.
President Johnson: I don’t know why his 200,000 are not showing some results and we keep saying that everything is bad and looks blue.
McNamara: This is the question, Mr. President. We’ve not seen the results yet. Maybe they’ll come, but it’s a very uncertain period. Khanh is behaving properly; there’s no doubt.
President Johnson: Why don’t we send Lodge a wire back in reply to the one he sent yesterday that we heartily agree with him they ought to clear out an area and get some results, and to please tell Khanh that we think this is absolutely essential to our continued morale here, or our continued support or something?
McNamara: Sure, we’ll do that.
August 20, 1964
LBJ and George Reedy, 11:10 AM
President Johnson: I’d keep it behind the convention. Then I’d point out that we do have television press conferences from time to time, but we’ll meet this after the convention. That’s what I’d try to do.
Reedy: OK.
President Johnson: I wouldn’t mention Sarnoff or NBC any more than I could. The sons of bitches want a little publicity in trying to press this thing and advertise a commercial program, "Meet the Press"—
Reedy: That’s the point . . . One point I wanted to get across somehow is they’re all playing this as a debate. Actually, it’s nothing but another invitation to appear on "Meet the Press." It’s not a debate.
President Johnson: I don’t want to get into a debate with them, though, in your press conference.
Reedy: OK, sir.
President Johnson: What I’d try to say is that "the President appears on television a good deal these days and will continue to. When and where and under what circumstances, he’ll determine after the convention. As far as the campaign television is concerned, he’ll determine it after the convention."
Reedy: Right. Now, one other thought I had today. On this business about the timing of the Vietnam announcement, if I’m asked again, I thought I might say, "Well, I just don’t see why Senator Goldwater is so concerned about this. He made his announcement an hour and a half before the President did."
His announcement, of course, was just a simple three-line statement, but he cleared the wire at 10:08 on it.
President Johnson: He said more than three lines, didn’t he?
Reedy: Here’s what I’ve got. He said, "I am sure that every American will subscribe to the actions outlined in the President’s statement. I believe it is the only thing we can do, and he can do, under the circumstances. We cannot allow the American flag to be shot at anywhere on Earth if we are to maintain our respect and prestige."
President Johnson: Well, I think that will just prolong it, and bring it back into the thing.
Reedy: I’ll just leave it where I did last night, then.
President Johnson: I think I’d do that. I just wouldn’t get into any argument. Let him have all the rope he wants.
I think that we’re getting a pretty big beating on the wealth thing. Clark [Clifford] and Abe [Fortas] just think it’s wonderful, just think it’s doing good. But I watched [Dean] Burch and I watched various statements on it—Goldwater’s stuff—and I think it’s going to hurt us like hell. I think it will be a major issue. I think it will be corruption, and terrible.
They don’t think so. They say I ought to forget it, that I’m just person about it. But I’ve been watching television a good deal than they have, and I’ve had a good deal more political experience. I think we blew it up and made a major outfit out of it.
I think it’s bad. And I think he’s corrupt. He’s got nothing for his kid’s trust funds, and his statements. He’s dodged the whole damn thing. I don’t know about his valuation of stocks. His mother’s drawing money from his company—89 years old—deducting it. He’s drawing a salary, while’s he’s on the Senate payroll. Nothing wrong with that. From the department store.
But it’s bad for us. I think we’re getting the worst end of the publicity.
Reedy: Well, on this particular thing, I don’t think you’re going to get any good stories out of releasing that report yesterday, but I think the one thing that you do get out of it, that probably made it worthwhile, is that now that we’ve done it, they can’t keep sniping away at why we don’t do it. In a sense, the facts don’t matter here. If your statement yesterday had shown that you were worth a nickel, they’d still be pecking away at it, and making you look bad. But I think it is an advantage for them not to be able to say that we haven’t done it.
President Johnson: OK. All right. Anything else?
Reedy: No, sir—
President Johnson: They’re going to get reapportionment into this platform, which would be awful. It just divides the hell out of it. They’re going to get the Negroes in, and big parades, and that’s going to be bad. I don’t know what we can do about it. I just think we’re going to get this thing in an impossible situation. Just impossible. I just think it’s going to be rioting, and killing, and murdering. Just as messy as it can [be]. [With a touch of self-pity.] But I don’t know anything that I can do.
Reedy: We’ll just have to . . . I think that the main thing you can do is this: That you, as President, can counteract any damn thing in that platform by statements. I think that we’ve played that law-and-order theme heavy, but I think maybe we’ve just got to play it heavier. We’ve got to play that atom theme as heavy as we can. I think it’s a little bit too early right now to . . .
President Johnson: What theme?
Reedy: The atom theme.
President Johnson: Yes. Atom. A-T-O-M. But you don’t say it. OK.
Reedy: You bet, sir.
October 6, 1964
LBJ and Willard Wirtz, 10:15 AM
President Johnson: I made 31 appearances the other day, and I had five or six of them prepared. This week, I have to start out tomorrow and hit the train. Then tomorrow night in Raleigh. Then the next day in Des Moines. They’ve got them reasonably well along. There’s one on the Test Ban Treaty.
Wirtz: Yes. Springfield.
President Johnson: Well, they’re suggesting we pull that one, and make it on Wednesday night on TV. This is something you better get you some pretty good judges to counsel with you on. A man that’s got a flush hand doesn’t draw any cards.
Wirtz: I’m glad to hear you talk this way. I’ve been worried by some of the discussions we’ve had.
President Johnson: Now, that’s my feeling. But I’m constantly getting shoving saying don’t be a Dewey and don’t overlook him. Well, I’m not being a Dewey—I’m going out, but I really want to play it safe.
So they’ve got one speech that they were saying, "Here’s what we stand for, and the new frightening voice on the other side says so-and-so." I told them we better cut that out and not do it. So they’ve rewritten another one, and it says, we’re for Social Security and he’s against it. And they kind of cut that one out. Last night, they came up with the Springfield speech and suggested we put it on television, and I finally, just because I was worn out, said, "Well, I’ll do anything that you all want me to do."
Now, they’ve tentatively got us scheduled for a television slot Wednesday evening. Goldwater speaks Tuesday, and they think we ought to be on television. I’m not convinced that that’s the right thing to do, but I don’t want to just be vetoing all the time. I wish you’d give a little thought to it.
What they propose I say is pretty good, if it’s not too slick and too subtle. It’s the Springfield speech. And it’s on the anniversary of the Test Ban. Whether you would pay political time to do that or not, I don’t know.
Wirtz: I’m very clear, Mr. President. And I’m so relieved. We’ve been arguing day and night about this, and I haven’t known whether to bother you or not. I’ve thought that the reason was prevailing. I’ve made it a point to check with as many wise people as I know all over the country, of ALL as many different kinds as I can find, and they just all agree on this same thing, and that is the one important thing—and I hope this isn’t presumptuous—the one important thing is just to make it clear that you’re 10 feet taller than anybody else, and that anything else would be real wrong. And I’m right clear, just as clear as I can be, that the best possible speech—and it would be a good one—would be one on the nuclear testing thing, from Springfield, and that these others don’t even compare with that.
President Johnson: Well, now, what about our TV speech?
Wirtz: That’s fine.
President Johnson: That’s what they plan to do. They plan to take the Springfield speech . . .
Wirtz: That’s fine. Put it on TV.
President Johnson: Yes, put it on TV. Polish it up a little bit. Now, let’s be sure that we don’t get into something like we did on that spot thing, that we’re overdoing it.
Wirtz: [puzzled] Overdoing the . . .
President Johnson: You remember the little girl pulling the pedals out on the spot, and the bomb going up?
Wirtz: Oh, yes. I know. Yes.
President Johnson: Now, this Springfield [speech] has got some good facts about strontium-90 being reduced, and so forth, and I just don’t want them to think that I’m overdoing it.
Wirtz: I understand.
President Johnson: You take a look at it from that viewpoint.