An Interview with Angela Alioto

 

by Francesca Roccaforte

 

Born in San Francisco, Angela Alioto is a forty-five year-old, second-generation, Sicilian American who has spent summers in Italy. Ms. Alioto is a San Francisco County Supervisor, a mayoral candidate, a prominent attorney, business women, and mother of four.

FR:     Do you consider yourself a women of color?

AA:     Italians are Latinas and Latinas consider themselves women of color, so its kind of a mixed interpretation of it. My skin is extremely white for a Sicilian, I am extremely white but I don’t consider myself a women of color until I sit in the sun long enough.

FR:     Did your father encourage you to seek a career?

AA:     Not necessarily. I had four children when I was 24 years old. So when I went back to law school, I waited for my baby Gianpaolo to be in school all day. I was 29 and he was 5 years old, I was the only girl with all these brothers and a very strong Sicilian father. They wanted to know what the hell I was going to law school for and I still get a little of that.

FR:     Well what would it be like if your brothers went to law school? That would have been o.k.?

AA:     Yeah, they all did. They’re all lawyers.

FR:     Did your Mom encourage you to seek a career?

AA:     No. I’m a lawyer now, I have four children. I preside on the Board of Supervisors and my husband died three years ago and I raised them. I’m a single mother. Am I able to do it? I’ll tell you one thing, it is not easy for someone who comes from the background I come from. But obviously I’ve been able to do it. I’ve been doing it.

FR:     What opinions do your children hold regarding your edu­cation?

AA:     They don’t like my career (laugh). My children are more right wing than I could ever be. I am a very liberal and progres­sive person. You know I got a police officer son and very conserva­tive children. They see me killing myself for welfare mothers. I’m not stressing out, but working to the degree where I go to bat as much as I can for homeless people, people who are underrepre­sented. They just don’t understand what I am doing. I was making over a million dollars in 1988 during my last year as a lawyer. I make nothing now. The salary is ridiculous. I gave up a lot of money and they see me struggle to defend people. They think it is nice but they think enough is enough! They are not crazy about me running for mayor. But on the other hand they are very sup­portive if and when I do.

FR:     What is the future of Italian family?

AA:     I think 60-80 percent of our problems right now with our kids is that none of them have families. As far as Italian fami­lies, it has more of chance of surviving than some other ethnic groups because they are regularly a close-knit family. It’s a struggle.

FR:     Outside family?

AA:     My husband was from Padua, Italy. He was twenty-three, eight years older than I was. He did not want me to go to law school. He did not want me to have a career. He was very upset when I ran for office. It’s been a struggle all along. It’s kind of like when trying to get something done that the people don’t want and once you get it done they’re all very happy with it and that’s where it has been with my family. Its been a struggle to get it done but now that I’ve done it, and they’re all very sup­portive.

FR:     Does it threaten the males?

AA:     Everybody is supportive.

FR:     How have you maintained your Italian identity while as­similating?

AA:     My face. I went to school in Florence, Italy for ten sum­mers. I have a house right outside of Rome. I bought the house in 1976. I lived there for three or four months every year of my life until I became an elected official. My children all speak Italian fluently. Two of them are in Rome and Florence. Italy is half of my life. I wish I had bought a house in Florence. I bought a house which is great. I bought the house in Fraginia even though my heart and soul is in Florence. But when you have four babies in Florence and its gets over 100 degrees in July and August, its un­bearable, it’s not close enough to the water. I bought a home on the water right outside of Rome. My kids play on the beach and I go to dinner in Rome at night. It worked out beautifully. I miss it so much. I’m going through serious withdrawal from my inability as president of the board to leave town and that is difficult. I try to go in August for two weeks. It will be the first time in a long time.

FR:     What do you feel is the difference between living in Italy and the USA?

AA:     Totally carefree life we lead in Italy. It’s just totally carefree, “La dolce vita.” I got bored, so I opened a little business, a store. I went into the retail business during the summer and sold a lot of American clothes and objects manufactured here in SF. I did that for four summers. It was interesting but it was a major hassle to deal with the Italian government, the bureaucracy. They almost make our bureaucracy look thin as opposed to fat. The permits fees, licenses, the taxes.

    That was difficult for someone who did have to work a very easy life as opposed to home. I work very, very hard. I work from 6:30 to 12:30 everyday, seven days a week. Last Sunday was the first weekend I had off since January but I love doing what I am doing. You would have to, right?

FR:     I would hope so! Do women govern the Italian family?

AA:     Yes, I think women govern the world! You look at anyone who is successful and there is always a powerful women some­where and just now women are ready to be in power themselves.

FR:     But you came from a traditional Italian family. Where would you get your feminism from? Is that because of it or . . .

AA:     I don’t know how to answer that question. I don’t know how I get anything I get from the background I have. It doesn’t make sense except of my political leanings. To be in office would clearly come from my father who ran for governor. Being the only girl with strict father, I couldn’t go out. For me to be able to date, I had to get married. I had it hard at home, but never the less be­ing the only girl I was kind of in charge anyway (laugh).

    I don’t think of feminism the way that most people who had to struggle through it do. Since I was the only girl I got almost everything I wanted. When I look back on it, I don’t tolerate the nonsense which usually comes from men. So you can extend that to feminism. I guess you can call it feminism. I’m not too sure. It’s just a matter of attitude of wanting to get the job done no matter who you are dealing with. It turns out to be feminism in the long run because you are mostly dealing with men.

FR:     Do you think the mother is really revered?

AA:     Absolutely. I love it and I want to perpetuate that! That is one thing I want to make sure my kids get! Absolutely. It was very interesting. Every day is our Mother’s day here.

    Everyday around here is difficult since my husband died. Like tomorrow is my baby’s graduation from high school. It’s difficult without him to share these holidays. It was interesting about three weeks ago it was Mother’s Day and my daughter is in Rome at our home and my son Joe is in Florence. We couldn’t get through to Italy for two days! Everybody was calling Mama! I think that was such a statement and it is simply true that Italians adore Mom. I love that now that I am an older Mom. I appreciate the love and respect my children give me enormously. I thrive on that.

FR:     Do you think men really respect women?

AA:     I don’t think women get treated well, respected and ap­preciated by men generally. Is it more severe with Italian men? Maybe a little harder. I think women are amazing and they’re not appreciated at all. People say to me all the time “You are a lawyer, you’re the president of the Board, which is the second most powerful job in the city, how do you do it all?” I look at them and say you got to be kidding! Try being a twenty-four year old with four babies under five years old. Now that’s a job! Motherhood in my opinion is one of the hardest jobs. That’s why it was so annoying when a mother down in San Jose couldn’t use motherhood as a occupation. That’s baloney. That is one of the hardest jobs that exist and it never stops! Thank God. I don’t think that job is appreciated and the women who do it. I don’t think they are as respected as much as they should be and I don’t think women who excel in professional jobs are appreciated and are respected as they should be—by any men, but especially by Italian men.

    Let me give you an example that just recently happened. I’m having a disagreement with the arch bishop. I’m a Roman Catholic, always have been always will be. The archbishop and I are disagreeing because he’s closing parishes and the parish­ioners have come to me.

    Little old ladies are losing their heart and soul by the closing of these churches. The churches are in the black and should not be closed. There is no fiscal reason to close them that is apparent, other than what the arch bishop believes. He, the archbishop, picks the phone up and calls my father and says “Joe, I want you to come to my office because I want to talk to you about your daughter.” So my Dad calls me and he says “Well the arch­bishop just called me and wants me to go in and talk to him.” The archbishop is a big deal to my father. To me, the archbishop is a big deal. This has been an uncomfortable fight. On the other hand, I said “That’s fine Dad, you go in.” Dad can do his thing and have fun going in to see the archbishop which is a big deal. He’ll enjoy it.

    I call and leave a message with the archbishop’s office. “I need to know one thing, if my brother John Alioto was 44 years old, had four successful children, was an anti-trust lawyer, and was the second most powerful person in the city of San Francisco, do you think you would have to call his Dad? Absolutely not!” So if you’re asking whether Italian men respect women or ap­preciate women, I can’t say it any more than most other men. I think the archbishop clearly would have called me if I were a man, he would not have called my father.

FR:     Does being Italian effect you positively or negatively?

AA:     Positively. I take it a little deeper than that. I’m just not Italian. I’m Sicilian.

FR:     What’s the difference?

AA:     The difference is that Sicilians have been very discrimi­nated against forever.

FR:     Do you say you are Italian or Sicilian?

AA:     It depends, if I’m speaking to an Italian, I’m Sicilian, if I’m speaking to an American, I’m Italian. They’re not going to un­derstand the differentiation or get into it. I was seventeen years old and sitting at a dinner table with my classmates in Florence, Italy. I’ll never forget it! There was about eight of us. They asked me where my grandparents were from and I said Sicily. Six of them got up and left the table. Got up and left! I didn’t know what that was about. Here you have a very spoiled person (me) going to school in Florence, getting the best education in one’s life and being very wealthy and being totally discriminated against. It was an experience that probably was my beginning to under­stand discrimination in any form. Against the African-American community, the gay community, any community. There is a dif­ference of being Sicilian and being Italian. The Sicilians are looked down upon as the poorest of poor. They always go to the north to get jobs, so they’re considered basically a negative to most northern Italians. As a matter of fact, there has been an at­tempt to separate it. The problem is that they would have to put Rome in the South and that is the history.

FR:     So then why wouldn’t you consider yourself a woman of color?

AA:     Because this is a new phrase to me as far as Latinas are women of color. Women of color have always been African Amer­ican. I don’t know why Latinas consider themselves women of color. I guess they are and they want to be. I would not have a problem considering myself a person of color if I were a person of color—I just don’t think I am.

FR:     But yet in Italy you don’t have the privilege of being a northern Italian either?

AA:     No, and not in Tiburon, CA! I was at Bon Apetit, which is like a Safeway, and I was clearly treated as a Latino, a person of color and it was very interesting experience. It happened to me about three years ago. I thought the lady was kidding and then I showed her my driver’s license.

FR:     Then what did she say?

AA:     She would not let me go through the cash line! She would not let me pay and get out of there. She clearly thought I was one of the Latino people who work there. Which is a big issue in that town. Which I love because that is so hateful and ugly and you see discrimination rear its ugly head. I enjoy the battle be­cause it humiliates people and makes them realize how disgust­ing that attitude is—but there is definitely a difference.

FR:     Has being Italian affected you in the educational sys­tems?

AA:     No, it didn’t, but a lot of my family members were af­fected. My family wanted to be members of country clubs and we couldn’t be a member the Olympic Club for the longest time. My mother tried to get into the society circles when she first came here from Dallas. My brother Joe tried to get into the Diablo Country Club at an early age and he was denied. There was a lot of that fifteen-twenty years ago.

    My father ran for the Governor of the State of California and lost only because Look magazine said he was a mobster, a member of the Mafia. We proved this to be untrue in court. We are the only political family that has won a slander suit against a large magazine, which is a very high standard case in the USA. We closed Look magazine, it went bankrupt. But my dad is not the governor of California because of that article!

FR:     Oftentimes when an Italian-American politician gets into office they pull a spade on them. Do you think that is true?

AA:     Absolutely. I would imagine running in New York state as an Italian would be very difficult. I think that is why Mario Cuomo is one of the most brilliant men of his time. He is not a Supreme Court Justice because of this. I don’t think it has any­thing to with him. In the east, somebody has a cousin somewhere who got in trouble at some point. Some one, second, third, fourth, or fifth cousin, somewhere somebody knows someone and it’s hor­rible discrimination in my opinion—look what they did to Fer­raro. That was disgusting!

FR:     What do you think about movies about Italians?

AA:     Everyone wants to be Italian now. In the last ten years it has changed. The art world and fashion world have always done a lot but it has not always been appreciated. The food has made a difference in the world. Everyone wants to be Italian. Italians are always portrayed as mobsters, its ridiculous. No, there isn’t a good movie. We have some really wonderful Italian-American actresses and entertainers but no one knows they’re Italian be­cause they’ve changed their names, which is ridiculous. I can’t think of a movie that has portrayed Italians in a nice light. Of course, the Godfather series is exciting to people but it’s a nega­tive portrayal. It’s not O.K. at all!