The subcommittee met at 10: 30 a. m., pursuant to call in room 318 of the Senate Office Building, Senator William E. Jenner (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present : Senators Jenner, Hendrickson, Welker, McCarran, Smith, and Johnston.
Also present : Robert Morris, subcommittee counsel ; and Benjamin, Mandel, director of research.

     The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.
     Dr. Dodd, do you have any objection to being televised in this hearing or your evidence being broadcast by radio?
     Dr. DODD. No.
     The CHAIRMAN. Will you stand up and be sworn to testify?
     Do you swear that the testimony you will give in this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
     Dr. DODD. I do.
     The CHAIRMAN. You may be seated.


     The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, will you state your full name to the committee?
     Dr. DODD. Bella V. Dodd, D-o-d-d.
     The CHAIRMAN. Where do you reside, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. At 317 West 17th Street, New York City.
     The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Morris, counsel for the committee, will proceed with the questioning of the witness.
     Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as most of the Senators presently on this committee did not attend and were not even on the committee when Dr. Dodd last testified, I would like to review again some of her background so that everyone will be conversant with the witness' background in connection with the evaluation of the testimony.
     The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed.
     Mr. MORRIS. Doctor, what is your present occupation? What are you presently doing?
     Dr. DODD. I am an attorney.
     Mr. MORRIS. You are a practicing attorney now?



     Dr. DODD. Yes, I am.
     Mr. MORRIS. When did you get your law degree, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. 1931.
     Mr. MORRIS. Have you been a schoolteacher?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us the extent of your teaching?
     Dr. DODD. I trained to be a schoolteacher. I took all of my courses for teaching, received my high-school certificate for teaching in New York State, New York City, and I actually taught for a brief time in the city high schools, and then returned to teach in the college from which I graduated in 1926.
     Mr. MORRIS. I see. How long did you teach?
     Dr. DODD. I taught from 1926 until 1938.
     Mr. MORRIS. What subjects did you teach, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. I taught political science and economics at the Hunter College of the city of New York.   
     Mr. MORRIS. I see. Then did you leave the teaching profession?
     Dr. DODD. I left my teaching profession in order to go into the labor movement, and particularly to work for the teachers' union as its legislative representative.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were you the legislative representative of the teachers' union from 1938 until some subsequent date ?
     Dr. DODD. Actually, the legislative representative of the teachers' union from 1936 until 1944.
     Mr. MORRIS. Was that full-time employment?
     Dr. DODD. From 1938 until 1943 was full-time employment.
     Mr. MORRIS. What happened in 1944, Dr. Dodd ?
     Dr. DODD. In 1943 I agreed to join the Communist Party and to act as an open member of the Communist Party, to represent the Communist Party as legislative representative and to do other work which the Communist Party asked me to do.
     Mr. MORRIS. Up until that time, what had been your relationship to the Communist Party?
     Dr. DODD. I had worked very closely with the Communist Party from the time that I first became interested, in 1932, until the time that I became the legislative representative of the Communist Party in New York City.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you sketch for the Senators, Dr. Dodd, the background of your being drawn into the general Communist periphery?
     Dr. DODD. As a young person in my high school and college, I was the kind of person who was interested in the underdog. I was interested in people who were suffering. I was interested in people who had problems. What made me that way, I don't know.
     In 1930-31, I went to Europe, and when I was in Europe I became very much aware of what was going on in the Fascist countries. I had a chance to see what happened in Italy and had a chance to see the terror which was developing in Germany at the time.
     I came back in 1932 with a sense of pending disaster, the feeling that fascism and nazism was something which was to be deplored. I saw students on the University of Berlin campus beating each other up. I saw knives, guns, stones being used. I came back in the United States as a confirmed anti-Fascist.



     One of the first people who met me in New York was a representative of the Communist Party. She came to see me at my home, and she said, "We understand you are an anti-Fascist. Will you join a committee, the Anti-Fascist Literature Committee? Will you join a committee and write some pamphlets for us and raise some money?"
     I agreed to do so.
     Mr. MORRIS. At that time, did she mention the words "Communist Party" at all, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. She did. She said she was a member of the Communist Party, and when I agreed to do it she said, "Would you like to get confirmation that the money you raise for antifascism work will be used in that way?" I said, "Yes."
     She took me to see Earl Browder. She took myself and two other ladies from the middle class who agreed to raise money for them, to see Earl Browder. Earl Browder greeted us and said he was glad we were anti-Fascist, and welcomed us to the work of raising money for the anti-Fascist cause.
     Mr. MORRIS. Did the question of your being made a member of the Communist Party at that time come up at all, Dr. Dodd ?
     Dr. DODD. No; but some time thereafter, after I had been functioning with them for a while and after I met the Communists in the school system—I was still teaching in the school system at that time; even though I had a law degree, I had gone back to teaching—therefore, I met the Communists in the school system.
     I raised the question of whether I should or should not belong to the Communists, with this woman, Harriet Silverman. She said, "No, it is not advisable for people like yourself, who are in strategic positions, to become members of the Communist Party, to have a card, or to attend meetings. We will bring literature to you. We will have you attend private meetings. We will instruct you personally."
     Mr. MORRIS. On that, basis, you had gained the confidence of the Communist Party, even though you were not actually a member of that party, is that right, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were you entrusted with Communist Party secrets during that period?
     Dr. DODD. From 1935 on, I was invited to Communist Party meetings, secret meetings, and caucus meetings, unit meetings. I was invited wherever the work I was doing, whether it was the A. F. of L. trade-labor council, State federation of labor, or in the American Labor Party, of which I became an active leader, or in the teachers' union of which I became an officer. Wherever the work which I was doing was going to be discussed by the Communists at their meetings, I was invited and I was made part of the movement.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you tell us about your work in organizing the teachers of New York at the outset? You started organizing school teachers in New York; did you not?
     Dr. DODD. It just so happened that the college at which I was teaching at that time in the early thirty's, the colleges and the public schools and high schools were feeling the effects of the depression. It was the same, everything, throughout the entire country. There were many discrepancies. There were many evils which had arisen in the colleges as far as tenure was concerned, as


far as security, as far as finance was concerned, wages, and so forth and so on. I was distinctly an organizer, and I helped to organize the teachers in my college, the instructors, tutors, the laboratory assistants, and clerks, to improve their economic status.
     As soon as I had begun doing a job there and introducing legislation for helping them, the Communists came to see me. They felt I was a capable organizer. They came to see me and offered help. Of course, anyone who is in the process of organizing or in the midst of a campaign just doesn't ask too many questions. You accept the help. The Communists were always there with me, with information, with materials. Pretty soon they began approaching me about bringing the college teachers into the New York Teachers' Union, which was then affiliated with the American Federation of Teachers.
     Mr. MORRIS. What year was that, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. 1935.
     Mr. MORRIS. At that time, was the Teachers' Union, to your knowledge, controlled by the Communist Party?
     Dr. DODD. I will have to answer that this way: At that time, I knew that the American Federation of Teachers was investigating local 5, New York, because the charge had been that they were controlled by the Communists.
     Mr. MORRIS. This is 1935 ?
     Dr. DODD. 1935. As a result of that investigation, because after the investigation was over the American Federation of Teachers did not lift the charter of local 5; what happened was that 700 of the teachers who were anti-Communist withdrew from the union and established a new organization called the Teachers' Guild, but the old Teachers' Union retained the charter and continued to organize.
     Mr. MORRIS. At that time, it therefore became completely in the 1 hands of the Communists; is that right, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. The Communists were the leaders, although there were what were called the "splinter groups" also running the union. There was the Lovestoneites at times; there were the Trotskyites; there were Socialists, still in the union. These attempted to bargain for power, but soon, in the next 2 or 3 years, were to leave the union as the Communist control continued to make headway.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you tell us what the strength, what the number, what the membership of the Teachers' Union amounted to, at its peak?
     Dr. DODD. The Teachers' Union when I first joined it—when I first began to work for it in 1936—had 1,500 members. By 1938-39, we had reached the number of 11,000.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, I realize that you testified previously about how the Communists controlled that organization, but I wonder if you would tell us very briefly how the Communist Party was able to exercise complete control over 11,000 teachers organized as you have just described it?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party in the Teachers' Union was organized very much the same way that it is organized in any other trade union, with this difference: that in addition to controlling it from the union point of view, they also controlled the membership from the ideological point of view.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us precisely how this control was directed to the teachers in the union from the Communist Party?



     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party organized teachers in practically every high school and in most of the elementary schools, and where there were elementary schools. in which we didn't have 3 members, then you would associate 3 or 4 of the public schools together and establish a geographical unit. So you would have a network of units which were called shop units, actually working within the school, and then sending representatives to the county, and then sending representatives to the city.
     From time to time, in order to control the union work, we would have a meeting of all the teachers who were in the Communist Party, or representatives from the various units. This was called fraction. This was a fraction. You see, it was the policy of the Communist Party within the unit.
     By 1938, however, it became unnecessary to have fractions any more because the Communist Party had established its domination over the union. What happened then, we established a coordinating committee, we established a top committee of the union of Communist officers of the union, for the purpose of establishing policy.
     Mr. MORRIS. I wonder, Dr. Dodd, if you would explain to us, using concrete examples, if you possibly can—and by the way, Dr. Dodd, it has been our committee rule here during the educational hearings that if a name comes up for the first time and we have not had an opportunity to call that person in in executive session, we would rather not have the name appear in the public record until that person has an opportunity to come in. I think you know the names that have been mentioned before and those people who have been called in. So if a new name should come up, I wonder if you would recognize our committee rule that we have applied during the educational hearings.
     The CHAIRMAN. And give us the name in private session.
     Mr. MORRIS. And give us the name in private session.
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you give us a concrete example of how a directive of the Communist Party emanating from Communist Party headquarters is translated through channels down into the membership of the Teachers' Union?
     Dr. DODD. There was a slight difference in the different periods, but let us just take 1938, for example. The Communist Party of New York, the New York district, representing the State, would meet and make certain decisions Those decisions would be transmitted to the county organizers; the county organizers then transmitted them to' the various sections of the party. Some of the sections dealt with trade unions and some dealt with geographical units of the party. As far as the teachers were concerned, they were in the trade-union division of the party. So the county organizer would see to it that the leader of the fraction of the Teachers' Union or the leader of the coordinating committee of the Teachers' Union or of the Communist teachers, which really became identical, would get the information. And then what would happen is that they would be discussed by the Communist teachers and they would be carried out.
     Mr. MORRIS. What of the executive committee at that time, Dr. Dodd ? Was that controlled by the Communists?



     Dr. DODD. The executive committee of the Teachers' Union always, from the time that I knew it, had a majority of Communists. As a matter of fact, it was deplorably large. We had as many as 80 or 90 percent of the executive board were Communists.
     Mr. MORRIS. When you said "deplorably large," Dr. Dodd, precisely what did you mean by that; deplorable from what point of view?
     Dr. DODD. Deplorably from my point of view now, and certainly deplorably even from their point of view then, because it was Communist, and the teacher who was non-Communist didn't have a chance really of expressing her opinion or of really being heard.
     Mr. MORRIS. Was there a superfluity of Communist Party membership on the board?
     Dr. DODD. There was a great deal of rivalry to get on the executive board, and it was very hard to keep the Communists from wanting to play a leading role.
     Mr. MORRIS. For the sake of our evidence, Dr. Dodd, can you tell us how you knew who the Communists were at that time?
     Dr. DODD. One of the things that we did was, before every executive-board meeting, unless we were absolutely sure that we had no opposition, even where there was no opposition, just for clarity among ourselves, the Communist members of the executive board met together in advance, went over the agenda, decided how to clear away the obstacles, and how to achieve the end which we were trying to achieve.
     Mr. MORRIS. In other words, you caucused before an executive board meeting?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. And only members of the Communist Party were admitted to the caucus?
     Dr. DODD. We caucused not only before executive-board meetings, but before membership meetings.
     Mr. MORRIS. During that period, in connection with school matters you generally shared all the Communist Party secrets at that time, did you not?
     Dr. DODD. I did.
     Mr. MORRIS. You had to by virtue of your position?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you tell us–
     Dr. DODD. Excuse me, Mr. Morris. When I say "all," all in relation to the union. I never was aware, for instance, of the spy apparatus. I was never aware of that. I was one of the people used by the Communist Party to help control the mass organizations. There are three different levels, you know. There is the party functionary, the person in unions or mass organizations who is just aware of the do-good principles of the Communist Party; and then there is the underground spy apparatus and police apparatus, with which I had nothing to do and knew nothing about. I learned much later that even in my union there were contacts with the teachers on the part of people like J. Peters, who later on I learned was an international spy. I knew him as a mousy little man who was active in the New York County unit of the Communist Party. I did not know him as an international spy, nor did I know his name was Peters. I knew him by the name of Steve Miller.
     Mr. MORRIS. When you say he was an international spy, do you mean he was a Soviet international spy?



     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, just one thing in fairness to all the people who were then members of the Teachers' Union. Only a small percentage of these 11,000 teachers in the Teachers' Union were Communists, isn't that so, Doctor?
     Dr. DODD. Oh, yes; only a very small percentage.
     Mr. MORRIS. Would you give us an estimate, an informed estimate, based on your knowledge of the Communist situation and the Communist scene of that time, of approximately how many of those were actually Communist Party members?
     Dr. DODD. At the very peak of the Communist strength among teachers in New York City, we never had more than 1,000.
     Mr. MORRIS. Therefore, of these 11,000 members, no more than 1,000 at any time, to your knowledge based on your actual experience with the situation, were members of the Communist Party?
     Dr. DODD. That is right.
     Mr. MORRIS. However, were the other 10,000 drawn by the instrumentality of the union within the Communist periphery?
     Dr. DODD. Yes, they were.
     Mr. MORRIS. In varying degrees?
     Dr. DODD. In varying degrees, because most of the people came to the union because the union carried on a very militant economic program for the betterment of the school system, for increasing wages. But most of the people were not interested, for instance, in the political resolutions. The Communists were more interested in politicalizing the union than they were in the other economic objectives; but we wouldn't get people to politicalize if we didn't give them certain advantages on the economic front. So the twoworked hand in hand. If a resolution on peace or a resolution against fascism or a resolution on supporting a political party for election were to come up, the Communists would be very much interested in the resolution, but the others might not be interested at all and allow the resolution to be passed by without any opposition.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you tell us about your formal entrance into the Communist Party and the circumstances leading up to that?
     Dr. DODD. During the period 1939 to 1941, my union was under great attack by the State legislature. We had the famous Rapp-Coudert investigation of the schools. At that time I felt that the budget cutters, those who were interested in reducing the expenses for the schools, were very active. They had, as a matter of fact, in 1940 cut the State aid to education by 10 percent, and the resolution had been introduced to investigate the administrative processes of education, and attached to that resolution was a proviso to investigate any subversive activities in the New York City public schools.
     During that period I became—of course, the union was under great strain, and the Communist Party was the only organization which came to its assistance. Therefore, what the union did, in fighting 'for decent schools, we did everything we possibly could to protect the Communist teachers and the Communist ideology. By 1942, I was just very friendly, very close to the Communist Party leaders of New York; and in 1943, I was in the State legislature in February of that year, where I testified on the budget. And the chairman of the Communist Party, plus Si Gerson, who was legislative representative of the Com-


munist Party, Gil Green, State chairman, who has now disappeared from the United States, and Si Gerson, then legislative representative, came to me and said, "Look, we think you made a very good speech, the best speech of the day. We want you to join the Communist Party openly and become a representative for us." They then went on to argue with me that the big danger in America was redbaiting; that in the postwar period there would be cooperation between the Soviet Union and the United States; that the Tehran Conference had provided or would provide the program of unity of England, France Soviet Union, and the United States, the great democracies which were going to run the world. But in order to cement friendship with the great democracies, you had to get rid of the evil of redbaiting ir the United States; and to get rid of the evil of redbaiting you had to have more and more people who understood what communism was go out and say communism is doing good for mankind. They said to me. "We are going to have 30 or 40 trade unionists to join the party openly. Will you be one of the 30 or 40?"
     Since I was a person who felt that you should do what you really believed in, I said "Yes." Since I was following the Communist Party line, accepting their support, I said "Yes."
     I was therefore given a card, assigned to a unit, and began to pay dues and to be a member in an official sense. My name, however, was not announced to the public until the convention of 1944, which was the so-called convention for establishing the Communist Political Association of the United States, which did away with the Communist Party and established the Communist Political Association.
     Mr. MORRIS. Which in effect was virtually the same thing, was it not, Dr. Dodd?   
     Dr. DODD. The same people ran it and the same literature, only they were getting ready for this program of the integration of democracies Therefore, in order to avoid embarrassment, they were going to call themselves the Communist Political Association.
     Mr. MORRIS. Then you formally became associated with the Communist Party in 1943 or in 1944?
     Dr. DODD. 1943.
     Mr. MORRIS. What offices did you hold in the Communist Party during the subsequent period?
     Dr. DODD. I was legislative representative for the New York district. I was a member of various committees, like the labor committee, the women's committee, the committee on youth, the committee on education. I was a member of the State committee of the party; I was a member of the secretariat of the New York district, which means the three or four people who sit between each of the executive committee meetings and make decisions day by day. I was a member of the national committee and delegate to the national convention 1944, and—well, 1944.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, what relative position did you hold on the State committee?
     Dr. DODD. Relative?
     Mr. MORRIS. Yes. How did you rank on the State committee?
     Dr. DODD. I was an officer of the district. You had a chairman. I was one of the paid employees who was at the office. I was a member of the secretariat, which means one of the three or four people who sit in the office day by day and make decisions.



      Mr. MORRIS. By way of qualifying you, Dr. Dodd, I would like to ask you if you, being a member of the secretariat, which is really the controlling body of the State Communist Party organization—you say you were one of the 3 or 4 members of that secretariat. So as such you were able to have access to party organization?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. You were one of the leaders of the New York State Communist Party?
     Dr. DODD. I was.
     Mr. MORRIS. When you were a member of the national committee of the Communist Party, how many members were on the national committee?
     Dr. DODD. In the 1944 convention there were something like between 60 and 70 members of the national committee. There was a certain number openly members, a certain number who were known only by fictitious names, so I am not sure of the exact number. In 1945, after the Duclos convention, there were 55 members of the national committee and I was one of the 55.
     Mr. MORRIS. I see. Your activities were specialized, were they not, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you give us your specialties?
     Dr. DODD. My specialties were the legislative work, education, youth, women's problems, and the organized-labor movement.
     Mr. MORRIS. And things that came within the scope of your knowledge of your work, you were conversant with, were you not?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. And things that generally were not within the scope of that work would, in the ordinary course of things, not come to your attention; is that right?
     Dr. DODD. Sometimes they would, sometimes not.
     Mr. MORRIS. In other words, it would be haphazard whether or not it would?
     Dr. DODD. That is right.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us how long you remained an official of the Communist Party ?
     Dr. DODD. I suppose I remained a member of the national committee until 1948. I never went to a meeting of the national committee after June of 1947. I refused to go to any more national committee meetings. I did go to a State committee meeting in August of 1948, which was the end of my term of office there.
     Mr. MORRIS. I see. In other words, you had begun to break with the Communist Party by 1947?
     Dr. DODD. I walked into the State office of the Communist Party in 1946, in the fall of 1946, and said that I refused to work for them any longer because what I had seen in the period, particularly 1945 and 1946, made me realize that I was face to face with something which I had never bargained for. I was face to face with brutality, cynicism, and with an organization which said one thing and did another. There within the party I saw things which I did not and could not have seen as a trade-unionist or as a member of a mass organization or as an intellectual or as a person who believed in the welfare of my fellowman. It was only when I got within the sacred precincts of the


party that I actually saw the things which are abhorrent not only to decent people but to anyone who has any feelings for his fellowman.
     Mr. MORRIS. However, your break with the Communist Party did not become formal until 1949, did it, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. It became formal: when they told me you couldn't get out of the Communist Party; you had to be expelled. - So I was expelled on June 19, 1949.
     Mr. MORRIS. Subsequent to that time, however, your thinking and your outlook was such that you would not, for instance, have given testimony before a tribunal such as this committee for . many years later; is that right?
     Dr. DODD. It takes you a long time to become a Communist, and it takes you an equally long time to unbecome a Communist. Your thinking processes become sort of a reflex action. It takes a conscious struggle with yourself and an understanding of what Communism is in order to disentangle yourself.
     Also, you have to find a doctrine, since Communism is an all-embracing philosophy which embraces everything you do, which determines the kind of marriage you have, your relations with your children, your relationship to your community, your relationship with your profession. It decides and makes decisions for you. Once you are out of it you are left in a vacuum. Until you find something which is a comparable all-embracing philosophy, you are going to be at loose ends.
     Mr. MORRIS. You completely left the Communist Party in 1949, and since that time you have been practicing law in New York City; is that right, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. Right.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, since you last testified, we have had testimony from a man named John Lautner. Do you know John Lautner?
     Dr. DODD. I did.
     Mr. MORRIS. That a person named Tima Ludins, who was a teacher in the Evander Childs High School in New York City, had been a leader of a move by the Communist Party in late 1949 and early 1950 to organize 500 Communist teachers into an underground, the plan for which had been imported from Europe by the leaders of the Communist Party. Dr. Lautner testified that Miss Ludins was one of the teachers who had aided him in that work.
     Last week this committee brought Miss Ludins down and presented her with that evidence and gave her an opportunity to deny it. Instead of denying it or affirming the evidence, she involked her privilege against incrimination. She said she would not be a witness against herself on that and many other questions.
     I wonder if you could tell us, Dr. Dodd, whether or not you knew Tima Ludins while you were in the Communist organization and the Communist periphery?
     Dr. DODD. Yes, I knew Tima Ludins. She was a teacher. I didn't know her too well. I didn't know her as a teacher. I knew her as a Communist member of the coordinating committee of the Communist teachers of New York City. She represented one of the boroughs, I have forgotten now whether Manhattan or the Bronx. She was one of the 5 or 6 members of the coordinating committee of the Communist Party of teachers.


     She came into rapid favor after the 1945 convention of the Communist Party. From time to time after I left the Teacher's Union, I would go back to the teachers' coordinating committee to help them with their interparty struggle. There was always some problem going on, some struggles going on, in the rivalries between various Communist leaders which we could not allow to explode publicly. From time to time, when they had problems, I was called back to help them iron out their problems. On one such occasion, I sat in with Tima Ludins and the other members of the Communist coordinating committee of the Teachers' Union.
     Later on, I knew that Tima Ludins had been assigned actually the chairmanship of this coordinating committee of the Communist teachers of New York.
     Mr. MORRIS. So there could be no doubt that she was one of the leading members of the Communist teaching apparatus in New York, to your knowledge?
     Dr. DODD. No doubt.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, during the war, during World War II, could you tell us anything about the attitude of the Communist Party toward service in the armed services?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party basically—of course, Marxism-Leninism states that you can't achieve peace as long as there is a capitalist country left. In other words, war and revolution are going to be the fate of man until the Communists have taken over the entire world. But for countries in which they are yet not in power, the general line always is opposition to military training, except at certain periods. During the World War II period when the Soviet Union was attacked, immediately we had to make a change from antimilitary training to a promilitary training. We had to do this with the youth, we had to do it with the teachers, we had to do it with some of our trade union young people. There was discussion on this question because many of the Communists had almost imbibed the pacifist ideology on the question of war. They had run so many picket lines against war during the 1939-41 period.
     Mr. MORRIS. Why was the Communist Party pacifist during. that period?
     Dr. DODD. Because of the Soviet-Nazi pact which was in existence.
     Mr. MORRIS. In other words, because of the alliance of the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, the Communist Party in the United States had changed its outlook?
     Dr.DODD. Its policy was almost a pacifist outlook; that is, for the people, the masses, not for the inner circle.
     When 1941 came along, we immediately had to make the turnover to be in favor of military training. At that time I remember a group of young people coming in. They argued about the question of whether we should or should not be for military training. And I remember "Pop" Mindel, who was one of the teachers of the communism school, saying:

     Where else would a Communist get training how to use a gun? If we are going to make revolution, we are going to have to learn how to use a gun. You join the United States Army and learn how to use modern equipment.

     Mr. MORRIS. By that, Dr. Dodd, in addition to having an overall political outlook toward war, the Communists therefore were going to use it for practical purposes?


     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Namely, to train some of their own members? Dr. Donn. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. You say "Pop" Mindel made that expression to you?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. He told you it would be a good time for Communists to learn how to use a gun?
     Dr. DODD. That is right.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us precisely who Mindel is now?
     Dr. DODD. Mr. Mindel was a teacher in the Workers' School. He was one of the trained Marxists who used to give classes in Marxism-Leninism.
     Mr. MORRIS. He was also a defendant in one of the recent trials, was he not?
     Dr. DODD. He was used to train teachers. As a matter of fact, in a number of the national training schools for teachers. You see, when a teacher became a Communist, he immediately had to be indoctrinated, and one of the national training schools for the teachers was run by "Pop" Mindel. I remember visiting the school.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, did Communist teachers therefore accept the general directives of the Communist Party, and did they themselves go into the armed services of the United States during this period?
     Dr. DODD. Yes; they immediately began volunteering for service and cooperating with the war effort to their fullest extent.
     Mr. MORRIS. Do you know, based on your experience with these school teachers, what assignments they ultimately obtained in the armed services of the United States?
     Dr. DODD. I guess it was varied, because it depends upon the branch of service. Many of our teachers did seek to go into the educational division of the Army, the indoctrination course.
     Mr. MORRIS. How do you know that, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. From time to time the members would come back and we would discuss the question of what their work was, and they would discuss particularly the indoctrination courses where they were very eager to make the turn for the American soldier in a pro-Soviet fashion. Many of our soldiers were anti-Soviet, despite the fact that the Soviet Union was in the war with us. It was the question of making the turn and establishing the idea that the Soviet Union was a democracy and was, as a matter of fact, the most perfect democracy in the world.
     The purpose of the indoctrination courses was to get as much of that in as possible. Of course, in some places they got a lot in; in some places they had to take little. They were very anxious to get it in.
     Mr. MORRIS. You know this, Dr. Dodd, because of the fact that you knew these particular Communist teachers who did come back and as a matter of fact reported to you at Communist Party headquarters how they were carrying on their own indoctrination courses in their service?
     Dr. DODD. As a matter of fact, no Communist went to the Armed Forces or came out of the Armed Forces without reporting to the party his experience, his work. No man came in on leave without reporting to the party and finding out just what the pitch was.



     Mr. MORRIS. In the postwar period, in the immediate postwar period, Dr. Dodd, did these Communist teachers participate in any other work? Do you recall the "Bring the boys back home" movement?
     Dr. DODD. Yes. I guess all of us remember the tremendous agitation to bring the boys back home from the Pacific and from Europe. The American mothers wanted their boys home, the boys wanted to come home. We are a nonmilitaristic people. The campaign, however, achieved organized proportions. Those of you who remember reading the papers will remember the almost sitdown strikes there were in the Philippines, in Austria, and Italy; and I at that time, reading the newspapers, remembered the names of some of the leaders and among them were not only some of the trade-union leaders whom I knew as Communists, but also some of the teachers whom I knew as Communists. There is no doubt that we brought the boys home, 14 million men were disbanded, and our Armed Forces were disbanded; and that was the time when Russia marched into Eastern Europe and made her advances in China.
     Mr. MORRIS. You know from your own experience that the Communist Party in America was supplementing that international military movement at that time?
     Dr. DODD. It seemed no doubt in my mind when I saw the names of the people who were leading this struggle.
     Mr. MORRIS. With respect to the names, Dr. Dodd, I ask you there again if you will not mention any of those names at this particular time.
     Dr. Dodd, during this period, you were the legislative specialist for the Communist Party, were you not, generally in the New York area?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. You were their specialist in the field of education, the field of women's work, and labor legislation, is that right?
     Dr. DODD. There were many specialists in women's work. I served on their committees. I did some of that work.
     Mr. MORRIS. As such, you operated from Albany, from New York City, and at times from Washington, is that right, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. Right.
     Mr. MORRIS. That was your general sphere of activity at that time?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. I was wondering if you would tell us the Communist network, the hidden network that aided you in your operations at that time. For instance, in the board of education in New York City, did you have secret members of the Communist Party assisting you at that time?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party is an organization which is almost a government within a government, so wherever you have an official public organization, you also have Communists therein. The board of education had people who got their jobs through civil service. Among them certainly there were Communists. There were people at the board of education who functioned on various committees like the curriculum committee.
     Mr. MORRIS. In other words—may I just break in there—there were people on the curriculum committee on the board of education who

were secret members of the Communist Party and whose services were available to you at all times to supplement the work that you were doing?
     Dr. DODD. Services were available; I mean, from time to time information was available from them. Also, there were clerks of the board of education who kept us informed as to what was happening, so we had advance information about what was going on. That is one of the real problems of the Communist underground network, that you never quite know whether your secretary is a Communist or not, whether she is taking material out of your files or not.
     We did have people, both in the board of education and at the various schools, who were Communist clerks, who were clerks and members of the Communist Party.
     Mr. MORRIS. In connection with the clerks, was that a cell or was that individual clerks only?
     Dr. DODD. The clerks were a subdivision of the Teachers' Union and the Communist clerks had their own apparatus.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, in connection with Albany, in the office of the commissioner of education in Albany, did you have members of the Communist Party operating there?
     Dr. DODD. From time to time there were Communists in the State department of education with whom we coordinated and with whom we worked on education questions, and from whom we got material.
     Mr. MORRIS. There were more than one at some times, were there not?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. You did work with these people and these people aided you in the Communist plan that you were working out at that time?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, again we are not pursuing this and asking the witness for the names of those people on open session.
     The CHAIRMAN. They will be given in executive or private session to this committee.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, did some of these secret members of the Communist Party, and particularly schoolteachers, work on the national scene ?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. In other words, did they have assignments in Washington?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Mr. MORRIS. Will you give us briefly your own recollection of the general assignments that some of these secret members of the Communist Party had in Washington? You do not have to give us the exact title. That would tend to identify.
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party had members in many of the different departments of Government, in many of the legislative offices, in some of the investigating committees.
     Mr. MORRIS. How about the advisory committees to the Executive, the various advisory committees to the Executive in Washington?
     Dr. DODD. Yes; there were a number of the advisory committees to the President of the United States where we had Communists.
    Mr.MORRIS. Members of the Communist Party. operating and aiding you in your work whenever they could be of assistance to you?



     Dr. DODD. They promoted the Communist Party program in those committees.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, in connection with the general work of Communists in schools and colleges in which the Communists were operating, can you think of any particular teachers who, after an experience in teaching in New York, say, or in the United States, proceeded abroad and continued to do their work abroad?
     Dr. DODD. I knew of a number of American teachers who taught in Moscow.
     Mr. MORRIS. Who were they, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. I understand Tima Ludins taught in Moscow for 8 years. She taught English in one of the universities.
     Mr. MORRIS. For how many years?
     Dr. DODD. The testimony seemed to be–
     Mr. MORRIS. No, no. She testified that she was there for a period of a year and one session, I      think.
     Dr. DODD. There were a number of others that I knew who went to school and taught there.
     Mr. MORRIS. How about people like Margaret Schauch?
     Dr. DODD. Professor Schauch was a full professor of linguistics at New York University. She is not teaching in Moscow, but she has gone to the University of Cracow, of Warsaw, teaching at the University of Warsaw, teaching linguistics. She has a sister, Helen Adams Ingfeld, who taught at Hunter College and went to McGill University. I think they are both at the University of Warsaw.
     Mr. MORRIS. They are people that you knew and dealt with personally ; is that right, Dr. Dodd
     Dr. DODD. Of course, it was interesting to note that Dr. Schauch just recently, before the death of Stalin, wrote a very long article in one of the Polish political magazines on the question of linguistics. There had been a struggle on the question of linguistics within the Soviet Union. Finally, Stalin settled the problem between the professors. The professors were fighting among themselves. Margaret Schauch wrote a long article in one of the Polish magazines praising Stalin and indicating that Stalin was, after all, the only person who would be able to make the final decision on the question of linguistics.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, were you an official of the American Labor Party?
     Dr. DODD. I was.     
     Mr. MORRIS. Could you tell us what that organization was ?
     Dr. DODD. The American Labor Party is like other political parties. Originally, in 1935, the Communist Party decided that because of the depression they were going to get a lot of influence over working-class people, but unfortunately for them, the working-class people were not ready to go into the Communist Party. Therefore, the decision was made to establish a Farmer-Labor Party. A committee was set up to establish such a Farmer-Labor Party.
     By 1936, however, by 1935 when the election was coming on for Roosevelt in 1936, some of the A. F. of L.1eaders moved into New York and established a Labor Party. The Communists then withdrew their own plans and merged themselves with the Labor Party of New York.


     Mr. MORRIS. How long did the Communists remain out of power in that particular party ?
     Dr. DODD. They never remained out of power. As a matter of fact, the first year it was run by the A. F. of L. leaders, but the Communists
     Mr. MORRIS. What was the first year, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. 1936.
     Mr. MORRIS. When did the Communists begin to come into power?
     Dr. DODD. They moved immediately to take over strategic positions. The Communist Party, whenever it is in a united front with anyone, any other organization, it will move to take power, to take strategic positions. This is no different. They moved to take positions, and a struggle developed between the so-called Social Democrats, the Dubinsky group, the Hillmanite group, and the Communists.
     By 1942 they captured the last of the counties. They captured Brooklyn or Kings County, which was the last of the counties, and then had undisputed control of both the New York City and the State apparatus of the American Labor Party.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were you an official of the American Labor Party at that time?
     Dr. DODD. I was.
     Mr. MORRIS. You know from your position in the American Labor Party and your position in the Communist Party that the control of the American Labor Party at that time was completely Communist control?
     Dr. DODD. I do.
     Mr. MORRIS. How did the Communist Party use the American Labor Party during the subsequent period?
     Dr. DODD. The American Labor Party was very popular, and raised many popular issues. The American Labor Party immediately, because officials like Fiorello LaGuardia and other liberal officials began working with it, was able to poll 400,000, 500,000 votes from time to time. The American Labor Party became the balance of power with-in the State. The Communist Party simply was the nub, the hard core, in that party. It was able to get very special privileges for itself by using its standing within the American Labor Party. In other words, the use of this apparatus of the American Labor Party was useful to the Communist movement.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were the Communist school teachers who were under your general direction and general control integral parts of this American Labor Party?
     Dr. DODD. As a matter of fact, the teachers' union affiliated with the American Labor Party and paid dues to the American Labor Party and became one of the unions that received a great deal of attention in the American Labor Party.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were the teachers themselves important elements in the American Labor Party?
     Dr. DODD. The teachers themselves became important members, in that they had some free time after school and evenings. Also, they were articulate, they were literate, they were able to write leaflets, to hold meetings, to become delegates to conventions, and so forth and so on. The teachers became an important part of the American Labor Party.



     Mr. MORRIS. And, as such, participated in the general use that the Communist Party made of the American Labor Party?
     Dr. DODD. The American Labor Party thereafter introduced our legislation and went to bat for us with the various Republicans or Democrats in the State leadership to get certain favors for the teachers.
     The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Dodd, you previously testified that the New York Teachers' Union, with a membership of about 11,000, I believe you said,. was completely under the control of the Communist Party. Could you explain to what extent the Communists were able to influence the 11,000 teachers in the union?
     Dr. DODD. We influenced them on political questions. The union, for instance, had a political program at all times. We influenced them on the question of war and peace, the question of the activity against fascism. We could use their power certainly against anyone we wanted to destroy in public life, by using their voting power and using their power to write letters and generally to be articulate.
     Also, the teachers' union had very effective publications in which you had theoretical articles on the method of teaching, the principles of teaching, the philosophy of teaching. Thus, the people who joined the union for economic benefit of course also got the advantage of the Communist theory on education. The question of even the kind of meetings you had, the kind of speakers that you invited, influenced these teachers. Of course, many of them dropped away as the struggle became harder and the Rapp-Coudert committee came into being.
     The CHAIRMAN. Of your own knowledge, what was the peak of the Communist strength among the schoolteachers and college professors of the country?
     Dr. DODD. The peak was about 1,500 members.
     The CHAIRMAN. Did that number include only the Communist Party members?
     Dr. DODD. Those were Communist Party members.
     The CHAIRMAN. There were other "front" members, and so forth, I presume.
     Dr. DODD. In America, for instance, we never had more than maybe 75,000 members of the Communist Party, but there were times when we said there were at least a million people in the United States who had been either in or out of the party, who supported some campaign.
     The CHAIRMAN. Did the Communist strength radiate more extensively than the number of party members you have mentioned?
     Dr. DODD. The strength of an individual in the Communist Party is infinitely greater than the strength of any other single individual. You must not only count noses among Communists, but you must weigh the intensity with which they believe and also the intensity with which they are trained and educated to carry on a campaign. You yourself might believe in something intensively, but if you were a Communist, every 2 weeks you would be reporting to someone and getting instructions from someone. So, therefore, your line didn't waver. Your intensity would multiply manyfold.
     The CHAIRMAN. Where were most of these teachers concentrated?
     Dr. DODD. The East had the large proportion. There were some in Chicago and a small block out in the California area, but the East was the place where you had the large number.


     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, in connection with the colleges, you have given us in public session a list of colleges where you had Communist Party units, and in executive session I think the list that you have given us is even more extensive. I wonder if you could tell us precisely how, viewing the thing from the Communist Party headquarters, a unit operating in a particular college would be coordinated with the whole Communist international organization?
     Dr. DODD. A Communist unit on a college campus consisting of anywhere from 3 members to 25, 30, 40, or 50 members, would first of all coordinate themselves. They would have meetings of themselves which would be educational. They would study Marxist theory. They would then be coordinated with the district organizers. Let's choose a neutral State. Let's suppose it was Jersey. The teachers on that college campus would then be contacted by the county organizer of that particular county or by the State organizer, who would keep in touch with them from time to time. One of their members would be reporting to the official of the party from time to time.
In addition to that organizational contact, which meant paying dues and raising money, there was the educational contact. All those representatives of the colleges would then have some contact with the Teachers' Union fraction; that is, the teachers who were Communists. There would be a national fraction set up.
     In addition to that, the Communists in that college who were, let us say, mathematicians, would have contact with the Communist mathematicians from other universities, because they would be meeting in the professional organizations. In other words, the Communist teacher on a college campus would have many ties in with the Communist movement, depending upon the level on which he was operating and the interest which he had.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, based upon your experience at Hunter College and your experience in the legislative field on behalf of the Teachers' Union and your entire background, can you tell me whether or not a Communist teacher or a Communist college professor is a free agent in any sense of the word ?
     Dr. DODD. No Communist who knows he is a Communist can be a free agent. He is a soldier in the international army of world communism, and he has a devotion to that principle over and above anything else there may be. It is not like just being an ordinary liberal or an ordinary radical. You are part of an international movement, and you are coordinated with your committees and your organization. You meet at least once every 2 weeks with the people who are the party apparatus. There is no such thing as freedom for a Communist college teacher.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, is such a teacher or professor free to pursue the highest ideal of academic freedom and freedom of inquiry?
     Dr. DODD. I will give it to you from two points of view. From the information we have from the Soviet Union and from the satellite countries, certainly we learn that the physicians, biologists, the linguistic professors, were not free to pursue their own inquiry into the truth. They had to accept the Communist Party determination as to what was the truth.



     Within our own country, we have any number of illustrations of both professors and writers who from time to time have been called up before the control commission because they have either written or spoken or done that which was contrary to the Marxist-Leninist philosophy.
     Senator WELKER. What is this control commission, Dr. Dodd?
     Dr. DODD. The control commission is the internal police of the Communist Party in any country that there is. The control commission is the disciplinary commission. Remember, I said that communism is a government within a government. If I commit an offense against New York City, I get taken to the court and go to jail. If I commit an offense against the Communist movement, either by thought, word, or action, I get brought before the control commission, and there I am tried, to a certain extent, and I am given certain penalties.
     Senator WELKER. And you had that control commission in New York?
     Dr. DODD. We had that control commission on a national basis, in New York and every other State in the Union, every other district.
     Senator WELKER. You had dealings with it from time to time, did you not?
     Dr. DODD. I was called before the control commission on three separate occasions during the time I was struggling with the party from 1945 to 1948.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, in your opinion, can any teacher or. professor not influence, either in class or out, students toward or in favor of the purposes of the international Communist movement?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist teacher has a very definite function to perform. He must not only make himself an agent of the class struggle; he must indoctrinate other teachers in the class struggle, and he must see that their students are indoctrinated in the class struggle. That doesn't have to be in four-syllable words. The class struggle means in the classroom that the schools are regarded, for instance, as part of the apparatus of the bourgeois state, and therefore the student is considered to be in rebellion against the bourgeois state. It is the function of the teacher to fan that rebellion and to make the student recognize that only by establishing a Soviet system of government will you be able to be free.
     Senator WELKER. Does he do it more in the classroom or more out of the classroom, or are you able to say ?
     Dr. DODD. It is done both ways. Within the classroom—I would like to read to you, if I may, from a publication called The Communist, the theoretical magazine of the Communist Party.
     The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Dr. Dodd.
     Senator WELKER. You may proceed.
     Dr. DODD. This was an article written in 1947 at the time when the Teachers' Union was at its peak, at the time when the Communist Party within the schools was at its peak, an article called The Schools and the People's Front, written by a man called Richard Frank.
     Senator WELKER. Who published this document?
          Dr. DODD. Published by the Communist Party, the national committee of the Communist Party. This is its monthly magazine, its theoretical journal.
Senator WELKER. You may proceed to read it.



     Dr. DODD. This is called, The Schools Are the People's Front.

     That which is most immediately apparent to anyone who studies public education must be the fact that the public-school system is part of the state machinery, and the function of the state machinery being to subjugate the proletarian and the toiling masses in general to the rule of the bourgeoisie, the role of the public-school system cannot be isolated from this general function of the capitalist state.

     You find, for instance, on page 436 it says:

     Because of the economic hardships of their homelife, the majority of the children develop a feeling of hatred for the bourgeois public-school system. This hatred develops that spirit of rebelliousness which is to be found in every public schoolroom.

     Then he goes on to say:

     The rebelliousness of the schoolchildren directed against a part of the state machinery itself is something that Communists cannot afford to ignore. This,, together with their desire for knowledge and social life, must form the starting point for our work among the students in the schools. The problem is rather how to guide and direct that spirit of rebelliousness which already exists.

Then he goes on to say that:

In addition, we must use the YCL to do that.

     Senator WELKER. What is that?
     Dr. DODD. The Young Communist League.

     The Young Communist League must endeavor to raise the spirit of rebellion found among schoolchildren to a level of higher consciousness by educating the student on the basis of their own experience to a realization of the class basis for the oppressive nature of the schools and to a realization of how the school system under a workers' and farmers' government would deal with the immediate problems of the majority of students, imparting to them, with the utmost solicitude for their own interests, that warm and friendly culture of their own class.

     Then on page 439 it says:

     The task of the Communist Party must be first and foremost to arouse the teachers to class consciousness and to organize them into the union.

     Here is one other quotation which I should like to leave with the committee, page 440, talking about the teachers:

     Communist teachers are therefore faced with a tremendous social responsibility. They must consider not merely their own teaching problems, but the problems of the children. They must take advantage of their position without exposing themselves, to give their students to the best of their ability the working-class education.

     Senator WELKER. I think that answers it. Thank you very much, Doctor.
     The CHAIRMAN. Have you concluded your questions?
     Senator WELKER. I have.
     Mr. MORRIS. Were those official Communist instructions that you have read to the committee, carried out during the course of your experience in the Communist Party by yourself and other Communist teachers?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt about it. There is no doubt about it. This was the function of a Communist teacher : To create people who would be ready to accept the Communist regime.
     The CHAIRMAN. Senator Smith, do you have any questions?
     Senator SMITH. Yes; 2 or 3. 
     Dr. Dodd, while you were working as a Communist in New York City, was there any effort made at the time to purge, I may say, a


 State legislative chairman who had attempted to expose the activities of the Communists and the teachers?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party knew how to fight very effectively against anyone who touched the Communist movement. If anyone tried to attack the Communist movement, the Communist Party immediately went among the liberals, among its allies, and on various bases got the support and help of these people to smear and to isolate the person who was hurting Communists.
     Senator SMITH. Can you tell us any more about the efforts that you participated in, particularly in New York State, with respect to one of the legislative chairmen?
     Dr. DODD. Of course, I was responsible for the attack upon Senator Coudert, who had investigated the schools. I made it my business to get as much information about his business affairs—I mean, I was the recipient of much of the information. People came to me with the information. We used that information. Senator Coudert had a firm which had a branch in France, and at that time France was under Petain. We smeared Senator Coudert as a Vichy agent, an agent of the Fascists, and conducted a campaign to defeat him in the election.
     Senator SMITH. Was it not true that many times the Communists in their smear efforts did not hesitate to use false information about a man in public life in order to smear him, to convince even the unsuspecting that he was not all right when he was ?
     Dr. DODD. What we did was—you always took someone who had a germ, just enough factual material, and built the thing up until it became a mountain, and then used it against him.
     Senator SMITH. Everybody now knows that Mr. Coudert is one of the most prominent anti-Communists in America, and has hunted them relentlessly; is that not true?
     Dr. DODD. That is true.
     Senator SMITH. Yet he did become the subject of a great smear campaign put on by the Communists because of his exposure of some of their activities.
     Dr. DODD. That is true.
     Senator SMITH. Was that common in New York State where, as you say, you could get the germ of an idea as to how you could smear a man ?
     Dr. DODD. It was a very common technique. You then used all the facilities which the party had. It had representatives, for instance, in the press, representatives in the magazine world, in the radio world. If everyone is concentrating upon one particular person, you get the cumulative effect of a party working on many different levels.
     Senator SMITH. From your observation and knowledge of the activities of the Communist Party, is there any doubt in your mind but that that same course of action has been followed with respect to congressional leaders who have stood out against the Communist movement?
     Dr. DODD. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that anyone in America who dares to buck the Communist conspiracy is going to receive very rough treatment from the Communists, who learn how, unfortunately, to utilize many unsuspecting people, who think that they are supporting freedom of thought but who in reality are the best protections for the Communist conspiracy.



     Senator SMITH. Will you tell us, if you can, by using some concrete examples, how the Communist Party instructions are actually transmitted down the line to various teachers that you are using?
     Dr. DODD. It was never just instructions. It was always put on the high plane of theory. A. new line comes out. Take, for instance, the question of military training, which we were discussing before. The Communist Party had been almost pacifist from 1939 to 1941. Came 1941, and we became militantly prowar. That line then was carried into the teachers' fraction. The teachers' fraction then made a decision as to how to implement that, how to carry that out in various branches. The branches then would decide, maybe they would give blood, maybe they would raise money for an ambulance, maybe they would get students of theirs to volunteer for the Army and Navy.
     Then came 1945, and the party line changed again. This time it was against war. In January of 1945, they were for military training. By May of 1945, they were against military training. Then the party teachers would have to change the line and begin to carry out their line within their own branches, not only within their branches but within their mass organizations. A teacher would belong not only to the Communist Party, but she would belong to the Teacher's Union, she would belong to the American Labor Party, she would belong to her own professional organization, she might belong to a high-school teachers' association or a college-teachers' association. Wherever she went, then, she had to carry the Communist line of the day.
     How do you carry a line? If it is in a mass meeting, you offer a resolution. If it is a question of raising money, make a contribution.
     Senator SMITH. Of the 11,000 teachers in the Teachers' Union, I believe you told us there were 1,000 Communists, about 1,000. The other 10,000 were in reality being used by the Communists who had gotten in key positions of control, and without their really realizing or appreciating that they were being used by the Communists?
     Dr. DODD. I think most of them did not know how deep the Communist conspiracy was.
     Senator SMITH. Is that not one of the difficulties we are having in this country today : To convince the better element among the teachers that they sometimes have been victimized by these Communist conspirators and have been used, under the guise of liberalism or something of that sort?
     Dr. DODD. I think the American teachers have a great opportunity in the very difficult time America faces; American teachers who are not Communists have a great opportunity of showing themselves as people who love their country, rather than people who unwittingly cover up a conspiracy against our country.
     Communism is the challenge of our times, and until that challenge is actually met and resolved, nothing else is important. The teachers who talk about freedom, either academic or otherwise, must understand that there will be precious little freedom if this conspiracy is not overcome, or if this world philosophy which seeks to destroy us is not overcome. I think the American teachers are overwhelmingly patriotic. I think they are overwhelmingly real Americans. I think that they are afraid of two things when it comes to the question of congressional investigations: They are afraid (1) that in-

vestigations may create such hysteria that it will stay the hands of local budget committees, who will deprive the schools of money they need to run themselves. That is a fear I think some of the administrators have. (2) There is a genuine and a healthy respect in America for people who are genuinely independent. There is even a respect for the radical tradition in America. We have had independent radical leaders of America who have made a contribution. No one wants to stop a person from thinking what he wants to.
     The only thing that is important here is how to unearth, how to uncover this conspiracy, how to isolate the Communists. What the Communists have done now is they have gotten control of a large number of well-meaning people and they have isolated the American Government.
     Senator SMITH. Dr. Dodd, I have recently made some efforts to enlist the support of some of the top educators in America in efforts to help this committee, to help it upon a thoroughly sane plane, in order that we might weed out the small group that are influencing and have influenced these activities.
     Do you think it would be possible for us to get the support of men and women high up in the academic world to realize that their institutions have been in danger and to get them to cooperate with us?
     Dr. DODD. I know that this committee has a will todo the job in a way that will make America proud. I think that you can get the cooperation of the leading educators in America if they understand that you are not interested in budget-cutting, if they understand that you are not interested in penalizing or victimizing any particular person, but that you are interested in uncovering conspiracy.
     An argument which is always given to you about investigations is, "Why don't we let the people back home do it?" That is all right if you are just going in to see whether a teacher teaches well or doesn't teach well in a classroom. That is all right if you are just going to investigate curriculum. But the home folks do not have the equipment or the information to uncover this conspiracy. This is material which is away down under. Only a committee which has the subpena power, only a committee which has had experience with the Communist conspiracy, can do it.
      It seems to me if the educators of America realize that this is your sole purpose, you will get the cooperation of the teachers of America, who are basically patriotic, self-sacrificing, and indeed have made a great contribution to this country of ours.
     Senator SMITH. Would not one of the best ways for this committee and any other similar committee to weed out the communistic activities among teachers be to get these outstanding educators to cooperate with us?
     Dr. DODD. I think that is the job the committee has before it. I think it is the job which not only the committee has before it, but the American educators have that job before them. They have to cooperate in this Government of ours.
     Senator SMITH. It would be your feeling, then, that they should be willing, and it would be helpful for them, to give us assistance rather than resistance, as some seem inclined to do?
     Dr. DODD. I think so.
     Senator SMITH. There is one other question I believe I have. When the Communist Party solicits teachers to join, does it reveal its real


 nature, its full nature, and the aims it has ? Does it mention espionage activities, and things of that sort? Does it mention its possible resort to violence to carry out its schemes or plans ?
     Dr. DODD. At different stages of history, the Communist Party will use different approaches in soliciting membership to the party. The period in which the. Communist Party gained its greatest strength in America, the period of the united front, the period from 1935 to 1945, was a period in which the Communist Party held itself forth as the great fighter against fascism. They were the ones who were fighting the brutality, the inhumanity of fascism. It was upon that basis that many people were involved in the Communist Party.
     The second great campaign of the Communist movement was the campaign to proclaim that they were for democracy, and this is the campaign which went on largely through the World War, to make everyone realize that the real democrats of this world were not the members of the Democratic Party here or not the Americans, but the real democrats were the Communists, because they carry democracy from political democracy into economic democracy, so everyone felt, "If I can be as free in my economic life as I am in my political life, that is really my ultimate good."
     Most people do not know what they are joining when they join the Communist Party as a whole. They haven't had a chance to discuss things basically or philosophically. Americans are essentially a nation of "doers." We don't philosophize too much. This is a question of basic philosophy. What they do is to get you to join on the basis of doing. "Will you join a committee against discrimination?" "Will you join a committee to fight fascism?" "Will you join a committee to promote peace?" So we say, "Yes."
     Senator SMITH. Thank you, Dr. Dodd.
     The CHAIRMAN. Senator Johnston, do you have any questions?
     Senator JOHNSTON. I do have.
     Dr. Dodd, from your teaching and your experience, is it your opinion that legislative investigations of Communist activities in the schools and colleges are necessary?
     Dr. DODD. I don't see how you can unearth and uncover the Communist method of operation without investigations which have the subpena power.
     Senator JOHNSTON. In your opinion, can a Communist teacher keep from spreading the communistic influence in the classroom or out of the classroom?
     Dr. DODD. I don't believe that it can.
     Senator JOHNSTON. As a teacher in the Teachers' Union in New York, have you at any time known the Communist teachers there in New York to try to spread their doctrine among the Puerto Rican immigrants in any systematic way or any other immigrants?
     Dr. DODD. The Communists use the race situation in a very effective manner. Since the Communists want to create a sense of fear among people, and a sense of hatred, what they do is to indicate that the majority of the people are against them. They will say to the Puerto Ricans, "The white people are against you," or "The American people are against you."
     They will say that to the Negro person. They will say to the Italian, "The Irish are against you."



     In other words, they pit one racial group against another. They are constantly talking about minority groups. They forget that in this country we don't have minority groups, this is a country made up of minorities, and that that is the strength of this great country of ours. They utilize this racial situation very effectively.
     Among the Puerto Ricans and among the Negro people particularly, the teachers have worked very hard to improve the schools, but at the same time they have worked very hard to get control of the parents, to organize the parent-teacher's organization, and to guide them and use them for their own ends.
     Senator JOHNSTON. That is all.
     The CHAIRMAN. Senator McCarran, do you have any questions?
     Senator MCCARRAN. Dr. Dodd, I am sorry I came in a little late.
     I.heard you use the term "conspiracy" quite frequently. You have not any doubt in your mind, from your knowledge of the Communist movement in this country, that it is a conspiracy to take over the United States of America?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt in my mind at all.
     Senator MCCARRAN. That grows out of your intimate knowledge of the workings of the Communist Party? From that you make the answer that you have just given?
     Dr. DODD. And from political theory.
     Senator MCCARRAN. Doctor, from your observation, is there any more fertile field for the implanting of doctrine for conspiracy than in the minds of the youth?
     Dr. DODD. The youth are a very special target of the Communists. They want youth because the youth are the government of tomorrow. The people of today are pretty well through, as far as they are concerned. They want to indoctrinate, and teach the people with whom they will take over tomorrow.
     Senator MCCARRAN. The youth, when in school, for the hours that he is in school, is removed from the home and the family ties, and the guidance of the home. So the youth during those hours is a subject for the activities of this conspiracy to train the mind of the youth along the lines that would eventually lead to the destruction of our form of government, is that not true?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt in my mind that the Communists will use the schools and every other educational medium, whether it be comic books or the radio and television; they will use every educational medium.
     Senator MCCARRAN. They go to every level in the schools, is that not true?
     Dr. DODD. From the nursery school to the universities.
     Senator MCCARRAN. From the primary schools, the grade schools, the high schools, and then into the academies, is that right ?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt about that.
     Senator MCCARRAN. To get back at it, Dr. Dodd, the object of this conspiracy and the object of all of this movement in the schools is to build up over a long period of time, if necessary, the tearing down of the American way of life?
     Dr. DODD. To establish a Soviet America.
     Senator MCCARRAN. That is all.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, do you know of any teachers who later became full-time Communist Party workers and functionaries?



     Dr. DODD. Yes; many of the teachers. The teachers were used on many different fronts, and the highest peak that they ever reached was that of becoming a party organizer. I, myself, became a party functionary. The man who organized down in Texas, a man by the name of Green, was a Communist teacher from City College.
     Senator WELKER. Doctor, I will ask you not to give any names of persons not heretofore named by you and not brought before this committee in private session.
     Dr. DODD. He is a public official.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, I was very much interested in your statement a moment ago given to the committee counsel about the struggle you had in leaving the Communist movement. Would you elaborate on that a moment, please?
     Dr. DODD. You see, up to 1945, it wasn't hard for a man or woman who had been trained in the atmosphere of American life during the period of 1935 to 1945, to go along with some of the Communists. You were for social security; you were for better schools; you were for all of these things. You were even for the war and for the support of democracy.
     Then came 1945, and we had this letter from Jacques Duclos, the head of the French Communist Party. Essentially what that letter said was, "You American Communists have got to stop talking so much about generalities. You have to get back to the job which you have to do—the job of getting ready to make the Communist revolution."
     At that time in 1945, I, as an American citizen, felt that my country needed to get back on its feet after the war period and reestablish a peacetime atmosphere. I did not feel that my country was ready to make a revolution. I didn't feel that a revolution was necessary. I saw the Communist Party move directly, step by step, to get ready for the change that they expected to make.
     The Communists were a little bit fooled by the fact that they expected an immediate depression right after the war, and out of depression and out of war, with the establishment of chaos, a revolution might be made, or at least the Communists could take advanced positions. The Communist Party internally was waiting for orders from overseas, and there was a great deal of confusion between 1945 and 1947. They said one thing publicly and they did another thing privately.
     I, who had been interested in the building-trades unions, found that they now began to move to destroy the very unions which I had helped to build. For 10 years we had been building unions, and now they moved to destroy them.
     How? They moved, for instance, to take key positions. They moved to take over three key industries. They moved to take over marine completely, by the establishment of the League for Maritime Unity. They moved to take over transport, and they moved to take over communications.
     I watched each step with apprehension. I watched each step with the feeling that something was wrong. I didn't immediately see the whole thing. I didn't see the whole conspiracy immediately. But I saw the individual actions which were wrong.



     I then tried to get out of the Communist Party, and found it very difficult to get out. By 1947, when Foster came back from Europe, after having consulted with world Communist leaders, he brought with him the plan of how the Communist Party was going to go underground.
     Senator MCCARRAN. Who did you say came back from Europe?
     Dr. DODD. William Z. Foster came back from Europe in the spring of 1947, and we had our national committee meeting in June of 1947. At that time he came before the national committee and made some very drastic recommendations.
     The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Dodd, having been a victim of the Communist conspiracy, what would be your message of warning to the teachers of this Nation on this problem, and to the students of our schools and colleges, and to the Nation as a whole? You having experienced this, what would be your best advice?
     Dr. DODD. I would say that the Communist movement when they see it in the schools and colleges isn't what the Communist movement really is. Had I seen it only on that level, I might not have been able to disentangle myself. It was only when I actually got in the middle of the thing, when I saw the inside of it, that I recognized that there was an instrumentality for destruction of the very thing which we hold most dear. Our Declaration of Independence says that our Government is founded on:

     We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that man is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

     I say to them that to preserve America we must get back to the principles of that Declaration of Independence, and we must hold onto it for dear life. I say to them that they can be proud and happy that they are Americans, and that they must join the cooperative venture which the Government is putting on today, which the trade unions are putting on today, which practically every decent American is putting on today. They must not lag in this. They must join in uncovering this conspiracy. They must not be sentimental about it, because they must remember that if they don't do it now, they are bound to contribute to the destruction of their country.
     Toynbee once said there were19 civilizations since the dawn of history; 16 were destroyed from within.
     Senator SMITH. I was going to ask Dr. Dodd right along that line : A few years ago, Czechoslovakia was probably the purest and the finest democracy on earth, was it not?
     Dr. DODD. Yes.
     Senator SMITH. They had more of the ideal of democracy in actual fact. Today we know that nation is under the dictatorship of the Communist Party.
     Is there any doubt in your mind that we in America might succumb to the same sort of blandishments that they succumbed to unless we are able to break this conspiracy up?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt in my mind. I was at the University of Connecticut not long ago, and I was talking to the teachers and students there, and I got some fight in the audience on this whole question ; that we were terrifying the teachers of America.
     I said, "I don't see where we are terrifying anyone. We are just trying to uncover this thing."



     So after the debate was over, one boy got up and in broken English said, "I came from Czecho. We used to talk just the way you do, but then when we found out the truth it was too late for us."
That was the answer.
     Senator SMITH. Is there any doubt in your mind that violent revolution is the final objective of the Communists, as indicated by their training in the use of firearms and military skill, if that should be indicated as necessary to put across their ideas?
     Dr. DODD. The Marxist-Leninist literature is clear on that point except to those who don't read it. It says you cannot make the turn from capitalism to communism except by war and revolution.
     Senator JOHNSTON. You have attended some of the meetings where they made plans for what they were going to do in the future. Have you ever heard at these meetings, their making plans where the; would say that, "We must really go into this field of teaching in or der that we can train up the young people in how they should live and teach them the communistic doctrine"?
     Dr. DODD. Let me read to you from The Communist, which is again the theoretical magazine, for September 1938, an article written by William Z. Foster, the present chairman of the Communis Party, the real chairman of the Communist Party, the real hard-core Communists. He is giving a lot of credit for having recruited large number of teachers, doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, scientists, writers, musicians, artists, actors, et cetera, a large number had joined in 1938. It was the peak of party enrollment, as ; matter of fact. Now he says :

     These middle-class professionals, when equipped with the Leninist-Stalinist training and a genuine Communist outlook, are of great service to the cause a democracy and socialism.

     They always use the word "democracy."
     Then he goes on to say what must be done with these people. He lays down a plan as to how to recruit teachers and professionals. H said:

     In drawing professionals into the party, care should be exercised to selec only those individuals who show by practical work that they definitely understand the party line, are prepared to put it into effect, and especially display a thorough readiness to accept party discipline.

Then he says:

     There must be special attention paid to the Marxist education of the professionals entering the party. This would have the definite goal of thorough communizing their outlook and reorienting their previous intellectual trainin so that its full value may be utilized in a revolutionary sense by our part and the masses.

     Senator JOHNSTON. Then it is true that you have meetings at intervals where the teachers come and where they are indoctrinated in the communistic doctrine?
     Dr. DODD. There is no doubt about it. They are given the Marxist Leninist training. As a matter of fact, most teachers who join hat to go to a school. They are sent to a school to learn how to become Communists.
     Senator JOHNSTON. Is it not true that they also report the success they are making?



     Dr. DODD. They report both successes and failures, and they are praised and scolded, and they are given new directions as to how to make the change. Where they have failed, they are shown how to get success. Where they have succeeded, they are told to go on and make some more.
     Senator SMITH. Dr. Dodd, I have jotted down a question that I do not know whether you have touched on heretofore in any testimony or not. I am interested in knowing whether or not you have any reaction to this question : Have you made any observations to the effect that those witnesses with whom you may be familiar, who refused to testify, resorting to their privilege under the fifth amendment, are really Communists, that is, insofar as you are familiar with them? Of course, you would not know all the people whom we have investigated and who have testified. W hat has your general observation been?
     Dr. DODD. When the McCarran committee was in New York and we had the investigation, all those who were Communists invoked the fifth amendment. All those who were not either said, "I was a Communist and am no longer," or "I am not a Communist."
     Senator SMITH. I was interested in that.
     Dr. DODD. That is in New York.
     Senator SMITH. I conducted some of those hearings in New York, and I thought that would be your observation, from knowing the people in the party. There is no doubt in your mind that generally as to those who refused to testify, that that is an indication, in most cases at least, of the people you have known who were or had been Communists?
     Dr. DODD. The people who refused to testify have to be disciplined. They have to have a plan of action. A person who is not part of the Communist Party or conspiracy would hardly say, "I am not going to testify," because he would be afraid of what was going to happen to him next. The Communists already have plans for what is going to happen next, if there are any charges; they are ready with lawyers and finances to support them. An individual would hardly take that action on his own.
     Senator SMITH. Then, as I understand, a person who is asked that question and did not respond, but rather, resorted to his privilege under the fifth amendment, might do it because of the danger of party discipline as well as because of the publicity he might get as a Communist?
     Dr. DODD. I am referring just to these hearings, and not to the criminal courts. Criminals frequently invoke the fifth amendment. Let's remember that the fifth amendment was put into our Constitution to protect individuals. It is being used now by a conspiracy to protect the conspiracy, and not individuals.
     Senator MCCARRAN. That is right.
     Mr. MORRIS. Senator Smith, in connection with the question you just asked, on the basis of executive session testimony that we have taken here during this and the preceding series of hearings, we have called in 39 teachers, the majority of whom were college teachers, and we have given them an opportunity to comment and testify on the evidence that we have received in executive session. Thirty-nine of those teachers have invoked their privilege against self-incrimina-


tion, and all but two of them have been dismissed by their local school authorities or in some cases had previously been dismissed by the school authorities.
     Senator SMITH. One other question, Mr. Chairman.
     Dr. Dodd, from your experience dealing with various groups in New York, is there any doubt in your mind that some of the severe fight made upon the present immigration law has been made by those who wish to have a freer hand to bring to this county men and women whom they could have in their Communist groups?
     Dr. DODD. I can't discuss that question. I am appearing before the Board of Immigration Appeals tomorrow. I prefer not to discuss that.
     Senator SMITH. All right, we will not ask you that question now.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, quite a bit has been stated publicly about. the question of an ex-Communist. I wonder, Dr. Dodd, based on your own experience in the Communist Party and as a lawyer for Communists in that connection, could you tell us what the Communist attitude is toward a sincere, genuine ex-Communist?
     Dr. DODD. It is the same attitude as you have toward anyone who is an apostate, a person who is no longer with you. Everything has to be done to destroy that particular person. What you do is gather information and use it to affect him emotionally, you try to drive him into a breakdown, you try to destroy him economically by making it impossible for him to be employed, and you also destroy his personality as a person.
     For instance, when I was expelled, I might have sued them for a couple of million dollars, because the resolution of expulsion read that I was anti-Negro, anti-Puerto Rican, anti-Semitic, anti-workingclass, and degenerate. I spent 20 years of my life working for the workers. I had given up everything I had held dear to do that work, and suddenly I found myself smeared in the most violent kind of way.
     Mr. MORRIS: What I had in mind when I asked the question, Dr. Dodd, was the fear that the Communists have that the ex-Communists will be a source of evidence and testimony against their conspiracy.
     Dr. DODD. Yes. When this resolution was passed and it was published in the press, of course the Associated Press called me up and asked me what I wanted to say about it. I said, "No comment."
     But a few weeks later I ran into one of these cynical members of the Communist Party who is one of the leaders of the trade-union movement, and I said to him, "So-and-So, how in the name of heaven did you allow a resolution like that to be passed against me? After all, you could just have expelled me."
     He said, "Bella, we had to make it impossible for you ever to have any credence or support from anybody. We had to make it impossible for you ever to rise and talk against us." So that is the method of shattering people so they will not tell what they know.
     As far as I am concerned, it has taken a long time to get the courage to come before you, because I also feared the publicity and the whole question of just getting up before you and saying, "Look, I was a teacher, and I was wrong. I went along with what I thought was the path to freedom, and I have reached the wrong dead end."



     But as partial reparation for the harm I have done to this country, I think it is my duty to come forth and tell you what I know, because it may help the young people and may help some of the teachers and may help some of our governing people.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, in connection with some of the actual cases that have taken place in the past, you remember Prof. Bernard Grebanier, do you not, and there were other witnesses such as Professor Grebanier, who did testify against the Communist organizations, against the Communist network in colleges, before the State legislature committee in 1941? You recall that, do you not?
     Dr. DODD. Yes; I do.
     Mr. MORRIS. Did the Communist Party conduct an active campaign against that particular source of evidence against you?
     Dr. DODD. Yes. They attempted to destroy the effectiveness of that evidence by attacking the individual, by making all kinds of statements about the individual. By destroying the individual, they hoped to destroy the evidence.
     Mr. MORRIS. What steps did the Communist Party take todisseminate smears against the particular witnesses?
     Dr. DODD. The Communist Party, as I said, is a government within a government. It operates within many different—for instance, if we decided we were going to destroy one of you Senators here in Congress, what we would do, of course, is, first of all, get it published in the Communist press, the Daily Worker, and the Mainstream, New Masses, and whatever other publications the party has. The party then would publish the official attitude.
     The trade-union leaders reading that would understand that is the official attitude, and then, where they had power within the trade-union movement, they would publish it in their newspapers, or, if they were part of the mass organization, they would publish it in the mass organization newspapers.
     Then we had certain contacts with the newspaper world. We had Communist Party members on various newspapers. We would contact them and see to it that they would use the publicity to smear the person.
     We had contacts with the radio world, and we would use them to see that they were smeared.
     We had contact with the intellectual world. We had various committees, professors who could be called upon, or ministers who could be called upon at any time, to adopt a resolution which would be sup-porting the Communist point of view.
     Senator WELKER. Doctor, are you familiar with the committee known as the Committee for Democracy and Intellectual Freedom?
     Dr. DODD. I am.
     Senator WELKER. Has that committee been used to exploit this issue called academic freedom?
     Dr. DODD. The Committee for Democracy and Intellectual Freedom, when I knew it back in 1939, 1940, 1941, was a committee which was intended to get strong support from the college professors on the question of any interference with colleges or any interference in the intellectual life of the various people. In other words, if there was a Rapp-Coudert Committee investigating the schools, this was a method of Mobilizing professional opinion against the investigation.



     If a certain gentleman in public life was stepping on the toes of the schools or doing something which was deleterious, this committee would then be brought into action, and these various professors would be canvassed to support it, a telegram, or a resolution or some specific action.
     The purpose of that was to get public opinion behind them. For instance, a resolution, let's say, against a Senator here, the resolution would be perhaps prepared by the executive secretary of the committee, it would be read over the telephone to two or three professors who were very sympathetic, and they would sign their names. Then the telegram would go to maybe a thousand professors throughout the United States, asking them to wire collect whether their name could be used to be attached to that telegram. Thus, in three or four days you would be able to have a thousand or 2,000 professors signing a statement which had originated within a very small group. This was done over and over again.
     The professors who signed it very often signed because they didn't know out of what the telegram arose and what were the implications. They read the telegram and it sounded good, and therefore, being fine people, they thought they ought to sign their names to it. That is how, over and over again, you find publicity, free newspaper publicity, given to items of this kind. You wonder what were the resources for doing it. The resources were, first of all, a tightly controlled and well-organized Communist Party; and, secondly, the setting up of these apparatuses which were partly Communist and partly non-Communist.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, will you tell us whether or not the question of academic freedom was ever discussed behind the scenes in the Communist Party as a tactical move?
     Dr. DODD. The question of academic freedom would be discussed every time we had a serious menace to the Communist movement in the schools or in any of the intellectual centers.
For instance, in the various scientific groups when there was a great deal of discussion about biology, the various theories of genetics, that would be discussed here in the United States, how the Communist geneticists might promote the newest theories which had come out of the Soviet Union. It would be discussed among the party as to how it should be done.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, could you tell us how Communist teachers acted to convert the class struggle into reality, as far as schools were concerned?
     Dr. DODD. First of all, you had to give both the students and your fellow teachers an understanding that this country of ours is divided into two contending classes. The Communists will say we are a capitalist country on the verge of decline. Therefore, there are two contending classes, the working class and the bourgeoisie, and they so hate each other that they are unable to work together. They so hate each other they are going to carry on an unmitigated struggle until the bourgeoisie is destroyed and is converted into a social regime.
     The way you have to do that is not only by ideas, but you also have to train people into action. Part of the action that you take is direct action. There is no doubt in my mind that, for instance, when you conducted a mass delegation of 1,000 or 1,500 teachers to Albany and


 just kind of landed on the poor legislator and you brought students -And brought parents, that was schooling in direct action.
     This, of course, is part of the thing in which you constantly have to politicalize people to take direct action so they will understand the feeling of illegality.
     Mr. MORRIS. Are you prepared to cite any Communist directives and Communist texts on that point, Dr. Dodd?
     Mr. DODD. No; I haven't.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, may I ask you another question? What would you say is the principal decoy organization that the Communist Party uses in decoying into the Communist Party a few members, shall I say, of the teaching profession?
     Dr. DODD. It differs at different periods. For instance, during the thirties, the greatest decoy for the American intellectuals was the Committee Against War and Fascism, which later was known as the Peace Mobilization Committee. That was the greatest decoy.
     Senator WELKER. That will decoy not only teachers, but almost any-one else-lawyers, doctors, intellectuals, any other thinking person. I am sorry I interrupted. Will you go ahead, Doctor?
     Dr. DODD. As far as the organizations, of course, unions were one method of decoying the teachers, but this is not to say I am opposed to unions. I am for good unions, because I believe good unions are necessary from time to time to improve the economic conditions of workers. That includes white-collar workers as well as the man who works with his hands. Unions were used because in unions the Communists had already promulgated their poisonous philosophy of class struggle.
     Senator SMITH. The term "human welfare" was frequently used in the name of organizations, was it not, that were decoys?
     Dr. DODD. Yes, especially the question of welfare, the question of discrimination. You take the whole question of economic security. You take the question of freedom. The Communists pervert freedom into freedom from want only. When you talk to a Communist about freedom, he says, "What do you mean by freedom?" He boils it down to freedom from want. Certainly we all want to give people freedom from want, but if you debase freedom as nothing but that, you get into a situation where freedom is meaningless.
     Mr. MORRIS. Dr. Dodd, as a teacher at Hunter College, while you were in the Communist periphery did you, as a matter of fact, try to take advantage of your position to slant your teaching in the Communist direction?
     Dr. DODD. All Communist teachers who read the literature of the Communist Party and of the Communist movement cannot help but slant their teaching in that direction. I was a teacher of economics, and of political science, and it was very easy for me to slant my teaching that way. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even conscious of slanting it., That was the way I was thinking, and that was the way I was teaching it, because I had become imbued with the whole philosophy and system of communism.
     Many people will say to you, "That is all right; in political science and economics it is easy to bring in communism," but I have seen communism, the Marxist philosophy, used, for instance, in the teaching of literature. If you are going to teach Milton, teach the poetry


of Milton, you also teach the background. What happened economically? What happened in the time of Milton? What were the struggles then? Which was the class that was going down; which was the class that was rising? The whole question of teaching the class struggle, teaching the need for a classless society, teaching the fact that there was always an oppressed and an oppressor, becomes the theme of every teacher.
     Senator SMITH. You could do that same thing with literature, such as Milton's Areopagitica. It was very easy to slant that.
     Dr. DODD. Yes, to say nothing of Shakespeare, lots of Shakespeare.
     Mr. MORRIS. You, as a matter of fact, did this yourself, didn't you, Dr. Dodd, and you knew that other teachers did this?
     Dr. DODD. Yes. Communism is a total philosophy. If you believe in it, you live it, you breathe it, you teach it. You can't separate yourself and say, "Now I am a teacher of mathematics; now I am a Communist." You are a total personality with your total philosophy, and you take it with you 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, as long as you believe in that philosophy.
     Senator JOHNSTON. It would be impossible, then, to keep from rubbing a little off on the students you came in contact with.
     Dr. DODD. They wouldn't recognize it as communism; nobody else might recognize it as communism. But there is no doubt in my mind that the Communist teacher teaches the Communist way.
     Senator McCARRAN. When did you say—I was not here if you did say—that you had severed with the Communist Party and Communist activity?
     Dr. DODD. Senator McCarran, there were different stages of my severing my connection with the Communist Party. In 1946, I went in and I turned in the key to my desk and said, "I don't want to stay here any more. I don't want any salary from you." I was being paid $50 a week to be the legislative representative of the New York Communist Party. I couldn't take it any more. I said, "I am going to leave."
     They said to me, "You can't resign. You can only be thrown out, and you can't resign."
     Nothing happened for 3 months, and I said to them at 10 committee meetings, "I will not work for you."
     In 1947, in June of 1947, when Foster came back from Europe, he came to a national-committee meeting, and he actually went through the process of putting on the blackboard how the Communist Party of America was going to go underground, how we were going to divide all our membership into groups of threes.
     I looked at myself and looked at the people around me and said to myself, "Can this be actually so?" I didn't see the need to become an underground apparatus. I felt when I had joined, that I had joined an open radical party in America, but I did not believe I had joined something which was just going to be an underground apparatus. So in 1947 was the last time I went to a national committee meeting.
     By June of 1949, the Communist Party had sufficiently besmirched my name and had given me "the works," as it were, and they proceeded to adopt a resolution to expel me. They told an insignificant incident which happened in east Harlem, where I was living at the time, and they used it as a method of expelling me.



     When did I really get myself completely separated ? When I found myself a new philosophy of life, when I found something that I could believe. You can't just live in a vacuum. I had to come to a belief in God in order really to achieve a reintegration of myself as a person, because those who believe in God aren't going to give power over their finer things to a state or dictator. If you don't believe in God, there is a vacuum there, and where the vacuum is, the others will step in to take over.
     Senator MCCARRAN. My question was preliminary to another question which perchance you cannot answer, Dr. Dodd.
     Either before you separated from the Communist Party or since that time, have you had occasion to observe what is known as the "one world" movement ?
     Dr. DODD. Yes; I have.
     Senator MCCARRAN. Have you seen the effects of communism in putting forth that doctrine?
     Dr. DODD. I don't feel that I am sufficiently equipped to answer that question, Senator McCarran.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd--
     The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a further question, Senator McCarran?
     Senator MCCARRAN. Not right now, thank you.
     Senator WELKER. Dr. Dodd, realizing that only a small percentage of the American teachers are members of the Communist Party, can you tell us whether or not that small percentage of teachers who are members of the Communist Party are encouraged to work in the parent-teacher organizations or associations?
     Dr. DODD. The function of the Communist teacher is to get under his control as many organizations as possible, and one of them was the parent-teacher organization, to move into the parent-teacher organization, for two reasons : (1) to recruit more people for the Communist movement or other organizations which the Communists control, and (2) to help them in the control of some of the school apparatus.
     For instance, if they were discussing the question of methods of teaching, the Communists want to be able to control the parents sufficiently in order to have their point of view adopted. The Communist teachers in New York City did a very effective job among the parent-teacher organizations. I don't mean to say now that the parent-teacher organization of New York is run by Communists. It is not. But within the individual parent-teacher groups, various schools, the Communist teachers always worked with parent-teacher organizations so the teachers could work with the parents, and they concentrated on those areas like Harlem and the East Harlem area. They concentrated upon the Negro sections and the poorer sections where the parents were grateful to the teachers for leading them and teaching them how to become parent-teacher leaders.
     As a matter of fact, in some cases we developed some of these women to such a high degree that they became members of the American Labor Party and some of them even ran for public office after having been trained by the teachers. The teachers were very assiduous in developing the parent-teacher movement.
     The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions ? It is getting close to recess time.



     Senator JOHNSTON. From your statement here, the way the Communist Party works is to try to go along with popular things; is that true?
     Dr. DODD. Yes. They put their finger on the pulse of mankind. Whatever is popular at the moment is what they do.
     Senator JOHNSTON. They plan for things that they think might happen in the future?
     Dr. DODD. That is right.
     Senator JOHNSTON. For instance, they were planning ahead when they thought a depression was coming after the war, and they were making plans how they would move in if that depression did develop.
     Dr. DODD. As a matter of fact, a great controversy developed between two economists in the Soviet Union about the American depression. One of them got purged because the depression didn't take place. They made real plans for what they would do in the event of that depression.
     The CHAIRMAN. Dr. Dodd, in behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for appearing before us this morning and being so candid and so forthright in your testimony. You have done a courageous thing. It has been of great assistance to the committee. On the basis of your open testimony and also the testimony that you have given us in executive session or private session, we intend to go forward with the investigation of the Communists in our schools in this country. I thank you very much, Doctor.
     We stand in recess until 2 o'clock tomorrow afternoon.

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