Senator SMITH. I think I understand you, whether you understand me or not. That will be all.
     Mr. MORRIS. The next witness is Sara Riedman.
     Senator SMITH. Will you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this hearing before a subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I do.

TESTIMONY OF SARA RIEDMAN, BROOKLYN, N. Y., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, CAMMER & SHAPIRO, NEW YORK, N. Y.

     Mr. MORRIS. Give your full name and address.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Sara Riedman, 1066 Park Place, Brooklyn 13.
     Mr. MORRIS. Do you teach in Brooklyn College?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Yes, sir.
     Mr. MORRIS. What do you teach?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Biology.
     Mr. MORRIS. How long have you been teaching in Brooklyn College?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Since 1930.
     Mr. MORRIS. Mrs. Riedman, have you been the head of a Communist unit at Brooklyn College?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I must decline to answer that question because I feel that it is improper for this committee to inquire into my beliefs-- 
     Mr. MORRIS. It is whether you are the head of a unit of Communist school teachers operating in Brooklyn College.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. My beliefs or my opinions or my associations. I believe that according to the first amendment of our Constitution these matters are a matter of privacy. And, that this committee, or any other group, has no right to ask this question.
     Senator FERGUSON. The same thing would apply, would it not, Doctor, to whether or not you were a member of the faculty of that school! That would be your association, but you answer the one and not the other. Why?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. My being a member of the faculty at Brooklyn College is a matter of employment. It is a matter of public record.
     Senator FERGUSON. Could not the membership in this Communist cell be a question of employment also?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I don't see how that applies at all.
     Senator FERGUSON. You do not?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. No.
     Senator FERGUSON. You do not think the people work, then, for the Communist Party?
     Mr. RIEDMAN. I don't see that this has anything to do with my beliefs.
     Senator FERGUSON. I am asking you the question, Do you know whether or not people do work for the Communist Party?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. When you asked me the question of whether I belonged to the Communist Party, you are asking me what my beliefs are.
     Senator FERGUSON. That was not the question.


     Mr. MORRIS. Were you the head of a unit, a Communist mut, composed of Communist school teachers operating in Brooklyn College? It is an organizational matter.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. It is the same as asking are you a member of the Democratic or Republican Party. This doesn't indicate employment by the parties. It is simply the question of asking about my political beliefs.
     Senator FERGUSON. Mr. Chairman, that is not a reason for not answering the question.
     Senator SMITH. The chairman is going to direct you to answer the questions, and then we will go on from there.
     Will you state the question again, and we will direct, her to answer.
     Mr. MORRIS. Have you been in the past, the head of a unit made up of Communist school teachers operating in Brooklyn College?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I have already indicated that I consider that an improper question and an invasion of my rights as an American citizen.
     Mr. MORRIS. The chairman has directed that you answer the question.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Under the circumstances, in view of the present hysteria and of malicious accusations, the real possibility, and in form being an honored profession, I must take recourse to my rights under the fifth amendment in not answering that question.
     Senator SMITH. That is to say an answer to such question might tend to incriminate you.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I am not saying it will tend to incriminate me.
     Senator SMITH. If you have not, we direct you to answer the question if you say it will not tend to incriminate you. The chairman doesn't want you to say or do a thing that is contrary to your constitutional rights but I want the record right. If you say it will tend to incriminate you, the Chair will rule that you don't have to answer the question.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. What I would like to see in the record is that this does not imply guilt. It might tend, but it does not
     Senator SMITH. That would depend on different persons. Some might think it did and some might think it didn't. The Chair realizes that. But I do want to get into this record your reason for refusing to testify.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. This and the others that I have indicated.
     Senator SMITH. I know you understand the difference in your refusing. If it will do that, then I will say that you have the right to not answer the question.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Yes; I do.
     Senator FERGUSON. On that basis?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. On that basis, and in addition the other reasons I have given.
     Senator SMITH. Anything else that you have said, that is something I have no objection to.
     Mr. MORRIS. Have you been a member of the Communist Party?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
     Mr. MORRIS Are you presently a. member of the Communist Party?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I similarly decline to answer for the reasons given.
     Mr. MORRIS. As previously described?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Yes.


     Mr. MORRIS. Have you ever had a book which was published by the Young World Books International Publishers?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Yes, sir.
     Mr. MORRIS. Is International Publishers a Communist publication house?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I decline to answer.
     Senator FERGUSON. On what grounds?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. On the same grounds.
     Mr. MORRIS. That your answer will incriminate you?
     Mr. CAMMER. Not "will," but `"will tend to."
     Mr. MORRIS. Have you been associated with an organization called the Artists Front To Win the War?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I don't recall such organization, but I would like to point out that this is the type of accusation and statement that I feel I have to protect myself against.
     Senator SMITH. Has anybody accused you? Nobody on this committee has accused you.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. Not on this committee, but may I make the statement?
     Senator SMLTH. Yes.
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. The first time that I saw that name indicated was in a letter sent to me by Rabbi Schultz, in which he said, "You were on such and such a date a member of this organization." I don't happen to remember but anyone in the present period of hysteria can make such a statement on the basis of that and make further accusations. This is an instance of why I am answering the way I do.
     Senator SMITH. You mean you are not attempting to accuse Rabbi Schultz, are. you, of anything improper in whatever he said?
     Mrs. RIEDMAN. I am giving this as an illustration. I don't happen to remember about that particular organization which he says I was a member of.
     Mr. MORRIS. I have no more questions.
     Senator SMITH. All right.
     Mr. MORRIS. Melba Phillips.
     Senator SMITH. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this hearing being conducted by a subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate shall be. the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
     Miss PHILLIPS. I do.