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WEDNESDAY,
APRIL 8, 1953
UNITED STATES SENATE,
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE
THE ADMINISTRAITONO F THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met at 2: 20 p. m., pursuant to
recess, in room P-63, the Capitol, Senator William E. Jenner (chairman
of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Senators Jenner (presiding), Welker, and
Butler.
Present also: Robert Morris, Subcommittee
Counsel; and Benjamin Mandel, Director of. Research.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.
Mr. Selsam, will you stand up and be sworn to testify?
Do.you.swear the testimony you will give in this
hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God.
Mr. SELSAM. I do.
TESTIMONY
OF
HOWARD SELSAM, NEW YORK, N. Y., ACCOMPANIED BY
JOSEPH FORER, ATTORNEY, WASHINGTON, D. C.
The CHAIRMAN. You may state your
name to the
committee.
Mr. SELSAM. My name is Howard Selsam..
The CHAIRMAN. Where do you reside?
Mr. SELSAM. 501 West 138th Street, New York City.
The CHAIRMAN. Let the record show that Mr. Selsam
is here with his attorney. Will you identify yourself; counsel?
Mr. FORER. Joseph :Foyer.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Morris.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, what degrees do you hold?
Mr. SELSAM. May I interrupt one moment, Mr.
Morris? If I could have your permission to read a statement.
The CHAIRMAN. You may put it in the record.. It
will become a part of the record. That is the same statement you just
handed us.
Mr. MORRIS. You may put it in the record and give
it to the press if you like. I see that you have a number of copies of
it there. If you like, you may give it to the press.
(The statement referred to is as follows:)
STATEMENT OF HOWARD
SELSAM
(Prepared for presentation to the Internal
Security
Subcommittee of. the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate,
Washington, D. C. April 8, 1953)
I come before this
committee only
under
compulsion; I testify here under protest. This is nothing but an evil
inquisition into the heresies of which educators may be suspected.
Page 771
All the actions of this committee reveal its aim
to be the creation of an atmosphere of repression and terror so that no
teacher dare follow the lead of ideas without first; asking himself
what ideas or organizations this committee, approves. Nearly every
witness you call before you knows full well the meaning of your subpena
server's knock on his door. It spells for him either the threat of
dismissal from his job and his life's chosen profession, or the loss of
his integrity and decency. He knows, that once he seeks to maintain his
honesty and freedom by standing on his constitutional grounds, his
college authorities threaten his dismissal. He knows that once he
begins to crawl before you, he will be dragged through the mud till he
becomes an informer, a stool pigeon, or an outright liar.
Such a proceeding as this, deserves nothing but
contempt from any teacher, scholar, or citizen of a democracy. As Mr.
Markel, the Sunday editor of the New York Times, observed last week
these congressional investigations of schools and colleges have dropped
an iron curtain on thought in our country, have produced a sort of
intellectual virus that paralyzes our moral sense and our basic
judgments. Only last week, too, the Association of American
Universities stated that a university's "whole spirit requires
investigation, criticism, and presentation of ideas in an atmosphere of
freedom and mutual confidence. Yet I am only one of a constant parade
of witnesses summoned before investigating committees for the sole
purpose of destroying mutual confidence among educators, blacking out
any atmosphere of freedom, and preventing any criticism of accepted
ideas.
All of my adult life has been devoted to the study
of philosophy and society and to teaching students they best of the
thought of humanity, past and present, in order that they might find
solutions to the. problems confronting them. I have always had the
deepest love for my country, whose independence my ancestors helped to
win. I wanted to be the best in everything, especially with respect to
the life of its working people and its national minorities. I have long
followed Thomas Jefferson's plea : "Educate and inform the whole mass
of the people. They are the only sure reliance for the preservation, of
our liberty.”
These are a few of the reasons why I choose to
uphold the Constitution with its guaranties of freedom of. thought, and
speech. These, too, are the reasons I employ the fifth amendment as it
was originally intended to be used, namely, to protect American
citizens against inquisitors, abusers of judicial power, or legislators
who, under the cloak of investigation, seek to frighten our people into
conformity.
Senator WELKER. Before we proceed
further, Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness a question?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, proceed.
Senator WELKER. At the bottom of the statement,
that you ask to have inserted in the record, what do the initials
tu-565 indicate?
Mr. SELSAM. That is the symbol, I take it, the
stenographer who typed the statement.
Senator WELKER. Where was the statement typed?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline to answer that
question, Mr. Chairman, for various reasons. The first is the
protection of the first amendment and freedom of thought and freedom of
speech.
The CHAIRMAN. Freedom of thought and freedom of
speech have nothing to do with the typing of matter that you are going
to release to the press.
Mr. SELSAM. This question refers to questions I
will be asked.
The CHAIRMAN. This does not refer to questions
that you will be asked.
Mr. SELSAM. The answer to this question involves
the answer to many other questions which I have enclosed here and:
already declined to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment .I do
not have to bear witness.
Page 772
The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will recognize the fifth
amendment if by that this will tend to incriminate you if you will tell
the committee where it was typed
Mr. SELSAM. The question was not what that means:
I will answer that question.
The, CHAIRMAN. You said it was the signature of
the person who typed it?
Mr. SELSAM: It means, Teachers Union, local 555.
The CHAIRMAN. That is the information we want.
Senator WELKER. Where was the statement typed?
Mr. SELSAM. That is a question I decline to answer
on the grounds have given.
The CHAIRMAN. On the grounds of the fifth
amendment, that it may tend to incriminate you.
Mr.SELSAM. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will recognize that.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, will you. tell us what
academic degrees you hold?
Mr. SELSAM. A. B. from Franklin and Marshall
College, M. A. and Ph.D.
Senator. MORRIS. Give me, the. years.
Mr. SELSAM. A. B., 1924; the M. A. I believe 1928;
and the Ph. D. Degree, 1930.
Mr. MORRIS. Now, will
you tell us what teaching
positions you have held in your lifetime?
Mr. SELSAM. I will tell you my first teaching
positions, from the American University of Beirut, Syria, to Columbia
University, and 10 years at Brooklyn College.
Mr. MORRIS. When did you leave Brooklyn College?
Mr: SELSAM. 1941.
Mr. MORRIS. When did you leave Columbia
University?
Mr. SELSAM. 1931.
Mr. MORRIS. When did you leave Beirut?
Mr. SELSAM. 1927.
Mr. MORRIS. What have you been teaching? What did
you teach in those three colleges?
Mr. SELSAM. English in Beirut and philosophy
thereafter.
Mr. MORRIS. I see. Now, Mr. Selsam, what was your
next teaching assignment after that?
Mr. SELSAM. Mr. Chairman, I will have to decline
to answer that on the basis of the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, were you associated with
the school called. the School for Democracy?
Mr. SELSAM. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that
question on the basis of the grounds I have previously given.
Mr. MORRIS. Were you in fact the director of the
School for Democracy?
Mr. SELSAM I will not answer that question on the
basis of the grounds I have given.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr.
Selsam, are you today the director
of the Jefferson School of Social Science?
Mr. SELSAM I will have to decline to answer that
question, Mr. Chairman
The CHAIRMAN. On what grounds?
Page 773
Mr. SELSAM. On the grounds I have given.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, Howard Selsam was
summoned before this committee one day last week. We did make an effort
to serve him with a subpena but in addition I tried also to call him at
the school. When I called the school, Mr. Selsam, you were not in but
the switchboard operator said that you then were the director of the
Jefferson School, and I left a message and I have since talked with you
asking that you be here today. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to
show that at the time the switchboard operator acknowledged he was then
the director of the Jefferson School.
Mr, Mandel, do we have catalogs of the Jefferson
School?
Senator WELKER. One question, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Senator WELKER. In response to your call to the
switchboard operator at the school, did the witness then return your
call?
Mr. MORRIS. It was not as simple as that, Senator
Welker. We also tried to serve him with a subpena and we sent a
telegram. I think that 1 or 2 days after those episodes, Mr. Selsam did
call and without any difficulty did agree to come down here today. We
made the agreement by telephone and he appeared with his counsel, and
counsel has told us that he was coming and indicated that he would be
here on time.
Mr. Mandel, do you have catalogs of the Jefferson
School. which show Mr. Selsam was, in fact, the director of that
school?
Mr. MANDEL. We have catalogs dated 1944, 1945,
1941, and 1951; showing Mr. Howard Selsam as director of the Jefferson
School of Social Science.
Mr. MORRIS. Now, Mr. Chairman, the reason for
calling Mr. Selsam here today in this series of hearings has been that
we have discovered in the course of these hearings that teachers have
gone from the Jefferson School right into the universities. Now, we
have had a teacher named Paul Aron, who our information indicated to
us, was a member of the Jefferson School and previously a member of the
School for Democracy. We had Mr, Aron here and we asked him whether. or
not he was a member of the faculty of the Jefferson School and whether
he was a member of the faculty of the School for Democracy and,
invoking the fifth amendment, he refused to answer.
We wanted to find whether he left the Jefferson
School and went directly to the faculty of Sarah Lawrence College where
he presently is. We asked him whether he was presently a member of the
Communist Party, whether he was a member of the Communist Party when he
was summoned before the committed, and he invoked his constitutional
privilege.
Now, there are other teachers. We had a teacher
from City College presently teaching at City College in New York and we
had him in .executive session and he acknowledged that he was on the
faculty of the Jefferson School. We have had other names here. Mr.
Mandel has turned up the names of Doxey`Wilkerson, May Edel, William
Mandel Louis Relin, and Frederick V. Field as people who have served on
the faculty of the Jefferson School.
Now, Mr. Selsam, will you supply to this committee
a current faculty list of the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. Must I answer that question now or
will you direct me to supply such a list?
Page 774
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, will you direct Mr.
Selsam to supply that current list of the faculty?
The CHAIRMAN. I think you put it in the form of a
question. Will you supply the committee the current list of the faculty
?
Mr SELSAM. I will consider it, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I order and direct that you supply
this committee list.
Senator BUTLER. Will you or will you not?
The CHAIRMAN. He has already been directed. If he
does not, he is in contempt.
Mr. MORRIS. Will you supply a backlist of faculty
members of Jefferson School; that is, give us a list of teachers who
have been on the faculty from the time it was founded to date., The
third request is will you. check in the records of the School for
Democracy and supply us with a list of faculty members of that school.
Our records show that you were the director of the School for
Democracy.
Mr. SELSAM. I will consider it.
The CHAIRMAN. I order and direct that you supply,
this committee ith the lists requested.
Mr. MORRIS. To your knowledge, Mr. Selsam, is the
Jefferson School of Social Science controlled by the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer and invoke my
constitutional privilege.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you invoke your constitutional
privilege under what?
Mr. SELSAM. Under the fifth amendment.
The CHAIRMAN. Let the record show that.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you attended secret meetings of
the Communist Party in connection with your directorship of the
Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer, sir, on the basis
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. How is the Jefferson School financed?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that, sir, on the
basis of the fifth amendment and the other reasons I have given.
Mr. MORRIS. Does the Jefferson School receive any
subsidies from the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer on the basis of
the fifth amendment:
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, who is the present
secretary of the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline to answer that,
sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, I have a fall 1951 catalog
of the Jefferson School. Mr. Chairman, we had some difficulty in
obtaining one. The fall 1951 catalog shows that Frederick V. Field is
secretary of this school. Is he presently the secretary of the school?
Mr., SELSAM. I decline to answer on the basis of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Was he in 1951?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that.
Mr. MORRIS. The 1951 catalog lists Alexander
Trachtenberg as the treasurer. Is he presently the treasurer?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline to answer
that, sir.
Page 775
The CHAIRMAN. Let the record show. each time the,
witness declines that the fifth amendment is invoked, and let the
record also show tha the Chair directs him to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, the executive secretary is
listed here as David Goldway. Is he now the executive secretary of the
Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline to answer that
question, sir, under the grounds I have given.
Mr. MORRIS. Was he at that time in 1951?
Mr. SELSAM. The same answer.
Mr. MoRRis. Is the director of faculty and
curriculum Doxey Wilkerson?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Is the registrar Rosalie Berry,
B-e-r-r-y?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr.MORRIS. Who is the current librarian?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr, MORRIS. Could you tell me this: To your
knowledge, was Henry Black the librarian of the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline to answer that,
sir.
Mr. MORRIS. How do you select your texts to be
used in the Jefferson School, Mr. Selsam?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer the question, sir,
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. You will not tell us what policy the
Jefferson School has in selecting texts to be used in the courses?
Mr. SELSAM. Is that the same question?
Mr. MORRIS. That is the same question.
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you written a Handbook of
Philosophy, published by the International Publishers?
Mr. SELSAM. I did not write it, sir. I edited it.
Mr. MORRIS.. You edited it. Is that book used at
the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. This, for the record, is Handbook of
Philosophy, edited and adapted by Howard Selsam from the Short
Philosophic Dictionary by M. Rosenthal and P. Yudin, International
Publishers, New York. Alexander Trachtenberg is the treasurer of .the
Jefferson School, is he not?
Mr. SELSAM. I have already declined to answer that
question, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Is he also in charge of the
International Publishers, New York?
Mr. SELSAM. He is.
Mr. MORRIS. Is the book Socialism and Ethics by
Howard Selsam listed here as the director of the School for Democracy,
a book that you have authored?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes, I am the author.
Mr. MORRIS. Is that book used in the Jefferson
School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that, sir, on the
basis of.the fifth amendment.
Senator WELKER. Is the book used in any other
school that you know of ?
Page 776
Mr. SELSAM. It has been used in a number of
schools and colleges. I can't offhand say which ones without possibly
making an error.
Senator WELKER. You do not. know of any schools
that it is used in?
Mr. SELSAM. I know it has been used in colleges.
Senator WELKER. Do you know of any particular
school it has been used in?
Mr SELSAM Not right now.
Senator WELTER. Do you know whether or not it is
used in the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I have already declined to answer.
Senator WELKER. On the grounds that your answer
might tend to incriminate you?
Mr. SELSAM. On the grounds that I do not, have to
bear witness against myself.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, is the book What Is
Philosophy? also published by International Publishers, a book that you
have authored?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes.
Mr. MORRIS: To your knowledge, is this book being
now used in the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. To your knowledge, is this used in any
other school?
Mr, SELSAM. It has been used in many colleges as a
text in its field.
Mr. MORRIS. I wonder if you would tell us what
schools?
Mr. SELSAM. Offhand, I do not know. I know that
there must have been it one time or another a number of schools that
used it.
The CHAIRMAN. Can you name one?
Mr. SELSAM. No; I can't.
Mr. MORRIS. Were you a member of the Communist
Party when you wrote this book?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer that question, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Did you advocate the use of force and
violence against the United States in this book?
Mr. SELSAM. I did not.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I might
quote from the book?
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.
Mr. MORRIS. This is page172.
Liberals are troubled, for
example, by such a
question as to whether the use of force can ever be right, or whether
it is just for the workers to conduct a sit-down strike and thus occupy
property "which does not belong to them." Besides confusing means and
ends, such people are thus. demanding; that the working class conduct
its struggle against the capitalists in accordance with rules the
capitalists themselves have formulated, and which they follow more in
the breach than in the observance. Today it is a definite disservice to
the cause of progress to conceive of ethics as simply a matter of
obeying certain principles and to regard these principles as
abstract
and eternal truths.
Did you write that?
Mr. SELSAM. If I presume you have read it
correctly.
Mr. MORRIS. I mean is it square with your
recollection of what you wrote in this book?
Mr . SELSAM.. Yes.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you ever attended secret meetings
of the Communist Party under the name of Comrade Hill?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer under the grounds
of the fifth amendment.
Page 777
Senator WELKER. Did you ever, hear of a man by the
name of Comrade Hill?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer for the same
reasons.
Mr. MORRIS. Were you the head of a Communist Party
unit at Brooklyn College?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer on the basis of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Do you know a man named Irving
Goldman?
Mr. SELSAM. I. saw the name in thepapers last week
and I remembered that I believe he was a student at Brooklyn College
when I first went there to teach.
Mr, MORRIS. To your knowledge, was he a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, one day last week we had
still another professor from Sarah Lawrence College who testified he
was in the Communist Party unit at Columbia and later at Brooklyn
College, On the information that we have, namely, that Mr. Selsam was
,the head of the Brooklyn College unit of the Communist Party at that
time, we asked Mr. Goldman if he would tell us who was the head of the
Brooklyn College unit and he refused to tell the committee on moral
grounds as to who was head of the Brooklyn College unit. You will not
tell us whether you were in fact the head of the Communist Party unit
at Brooklyn College prior to, the time you left that school?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you been active in the College
Teachers Union?
Mr. SELSAM. I was during a period in the thirties.
Mr. MORRIS. And what office did you hold in that
union?
Mr. SELSAM. I forget precisely. One of the vice
presidencies, I think.
Mr. MORRIS. That is the highest office you held?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes.
Mr. MORRIS. What relation does the Jefferson
School have to the Samuel Adams School of Social Science in Boston?
Mr. SELSAM. decline to answer the question, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. What relation does the Jefferson
School have to the Philadelphia School of Social Science?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that for the same
reasons. Mr. MORRIS. To the Abraham Lincoln School in Chicago?
Mr. SELSAM. Same answer.
Mr. MORRIS. To the California Labor School in San
Francisco?
Mr. SELSAM. Same answer. .
Mr: MORRIS. To your knowledge, are those schools
the one in Boston, in Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Chicago,
controlled by the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you sat in on meetings of the
Communist Party where policy was discussed concerning the management
and the direction of those four schools?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer on the basis of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, will you tell us if you
have written any books other than' the three we have mentioned here
today?
Mr. SELSAM. A volume, entitled T. H. Green, Critic
of Empiricism, a study of a British philosopher of the 19th century.
Mr. MORRIS. When did you write that?
Page 778
Mr SELSAM. 1929–30.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, have you ever worked for
the United States Government?
Mr. SELSAM. No, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. In any capacity?
Mr. SELSAM. No, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you ever worked for the State
government in any capacity ?
Mr. SELSAM. No, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you held any fellowships from any
foundation?
Mr. SELSAM. No, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Any fellowships of any kind?
Mr. SELSAM. No.
Mr. MORiRIS. Did you perform any war service, Mr.
Selsam?
Mr. SELSAM. You mean official service?
Mr. MORRIS. Of any kind?
Mr. SELSAM. Giving blood, is that war service?
Mr. MORRIS. If you consider it so, list it so.
Mr. SELSAM. Any number of such services; yes.
Mr. MORRIS. Will you tell us about them?
Mr. SELSAM. But no official connection with any
organization or the Government.
Senator WELKER. When did you give this blood?
Mr. SELSAM. Is that question pertinent to anything
before this committee?
Senator WELKER. I am not asking you for any dialog
from you. I asked you when did you give the blood?
Mr. SELSAM. Some time in the forties—'41,'42,'43.
Senator WELKER. Have you given any since that
time?
Mr. SELSAM. No; I have been refused.
Senator WELKER. Sir?
Mr. SELSAM. For medical reasons, I have been
turned down.
Senator WELKER. Very well.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, have you received
instructions from any Soviet official in connection with your direction
of the Jefferson School?
Mr: SELSAM. I refuse to answer that question, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. MORRIS. You will not tell us whether any
member of the Soviet Government has communicated instructions to you
directly or indirectly?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that question
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Now, do public-school teachers attend
the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that question.
The CHAIRMAN. Let the record show that the witness
declines on the ground of the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. In the course of your teaching and
directing at the Workers School; have you tried to recruit students at
the Jefferson School to the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer, sir, on the basis
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Are all classes of the Jefferson
School open to the public?
Page 779
Mr. SELSAM, I decline to answer on the basis of
the fifth amendment..
Mr. MORRIS. Are there secret classes held at the
school that are not open to the public?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Selsam, do you make any effort to
screen your students at the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Mr. MORRIS. Could anyone walk in from the street
and attend classes at the Jefferson School?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer, sir.
Mr. MORRIS. Are you presently a member of the
Communist Party, Mr. Selsam?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer on the basis of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. Have you attended secret meetings of
the Communist Party in the past?
Mr. SELSAM. I believe you have already asked that
and I have answered.
Senator WELKER. Would you mind answering it again?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer.
Mr. MORRIS: Could you tell us whether the
Jefferson School operates under any State or city license or charter?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to refuse to answer that
on the basis of the fifth amendment.
Mr. MORRIS. In connection with these lists, when
do you think, you could make those available under Senator Jenner's
direction?
Mr. SELSAM. I do not know:
Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Forer, suppose I call you Monday
or Tuesday of this next week and perhaps we could work out the
arrangements.
Senator WELKER. Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Welker.
Senator WELKER. Where were you born, Mr. Selsam?
Mr. SELSAM. Harrisburg, Pa.
Senator WELKER. How old are you ?
Mr. SELSAM. Forty-nine.
Senator WELKER. Mr. Selsam, I am sending down to
you a document which purports to be a Jefferson School of Social
Science catalog for the fall of 1951 in which your name is listed as
director. Frederick V. Field's name is listed as secretary, Alexander
Trachtenberg's name is listed as treasurer, et cetera, and I will ask
you whether or not that document in your opinion correctly lists the
officers and directors of that institution.
Mr. SELSAM: In line with–
Senator WELKER. Wait until you see the document,
please [document handed to witness].
Senator WELKER. Now you may answer.
Mr. SELSAM. In line with the previous questions
and testimony, I must decline to answer on the basis of the fifth
amendment.
Senator WELKER. The document, if you will pursue
it further, also gives the faculty members; is that correct?
Mr., SELSAM. The names are given here along with
courses.
Senator WELKER. The names are given there and the
courses. Now, did you have anything to do whatsoever with the
preparation of that catalog or that document that had been submitted to
you?
Page 780
Mr. SELSAM I decline to answer on the basis of the
fifth amendment.
Senator WELKER. Have you ever seen it before?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer..
Senator WELKER. Going back to some prior questions
asked you by committee counsel, were you informed by anybody that you
were asked to come before this committee to testify as to whether or
not you were a director of the Jefferson School of Social Science?
Mr. SELSAM. Do I understand the question, sir?
Senator WELKER. Did the switchboard operator at
the Jefferson School of Social Science tell you that this committee
wanted you to. appear here to testify as to whether or not you were a
director of that. institution?
Mr. SELSAM. No, sir.
Senator WELKER. How did you get the information,
then, that you were to come here?
Mr. SELSAM. I received a subpena under my door the
following day.
Senator WELKER. You have talked with our
committee
counsel on the telephone?
Mr. SELSAM. Pardon me?
Senator WELKER. You have talked with Mr. Morris on
the telephone?
Mr. SELSAM. I have not. I called him then.
Senator WELKER. You called him then. Did he tell
you why you were wanted here?
Mr. SELSAM. No; he did not.
Senator WELKER. He did not mention anything about
wanting to inquire as to whether or not you were a director of this
school?
Mr. SELSAM. He did not.
Senator WELKER. Do you know the ages of pupils who
attend the Jefferson School of Social Science?
Mr. SELSAM: I refuse to answer on the basis of the
fifth amendment.
Senator WELKER. Is it a kindergarten, school or a
school for adults?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer.
Senator WELKER., Have you had any connection
whatsoever with. the Jefferson Schoolof Social Science?
Mr. SELSAM. For the reasons I have given, I refuse
to answer.
Senator WELKER. Have you ever been in any of its
buildings?
Mr. SELSAM For the same reasons, I must refuse to
answer.
Senator WELKER. And you still refuse to answer as
to whether or no you have ever been a director or have ever instructed
in any subject there?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes.
Senator WELKER. Were any of the books that have
been identified by you and read from by committee counsel, were any of
those books, to your knowledge, used in the Jefferson School of Social
Science?.
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer under the fifth
amendment.
Senator WELKER. As a matter of fact, the
Jefferson School of Social Science is a Communist-sponsored
institution. Am I correct?
Mr. SELSAM. You are telling me, or are you asking
me?
Senator WELKER. I am asking you a question.
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer.
Senator WELKER. Do you know of anybody else
sponsoring it?
Mr. SELSAM. In logic we have special names for
that kind of question, but I refuse to answer.
Page 781
Senator WELKER. You do not hear of the American
Legion sponsoring it; do you?
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Welker, may I interrupt and
have Mr Mandel, our research staff director, read from the record
concerning it?
Mr. MANDEL. Attorney General Tom Clark in a letter
to the Loyal ty Review Board released December 4, 1947, referred to the
Jefferson School of Social Science as "an adjunct of the Communist.
Party.”
Senator WELKER. Had you ever known of that prior
to coming here and prior to hearing that read?
Mr. SELSAM: May I consult counsel?
The CHAIRMAN. You may consult your attorney.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. SELSAM. I wasn't clear in the question. Did I
know—which do you mean: Did I know that it was cited or did I know that
this was a fact?
Senator WELKER. I asked you if you had ever heard
that theAttor ney General had cited this institution, as related by Mr.
Mandell.
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Senator WELKER. Why do you decline to answer that?
. How could that possibly incriminate you?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that question,
sir.
Senator WELKER. Sir?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer that on the same
grounds.
Senator WELKER. It is a matter of public
information known to all people of the United States. Isn't that a
fact?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer.
Senator WELKER. I am not asking you whether or not
the Attorne, General's citation was, in your opinion, truthful. I am
asking you whether or not you ever heard of that prior to coming here
and having Mr. Mandel read it to you?
Mr. SELSAM. Mr. Senator, in closed hearings you.
threatened me when I answered some questions and not others on the
grounds that I couldn't select, and I do not care to be entrapped, and.
for that reason I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment and not
answer that question.
Senator WELKER. There is certainly no plot to
entrap you. You seem to be very able to take care of yourself under the
fifth amendment. I will ask the chairman to direct you to answer the
questions I propound to you. Will you direct the witness, Mr. Chairman,
to answer the last question?
The CHAIRMAN. Miss Reporter, will you read the
question.
(The pending question was read by the reporter.)
The CHAIRMAN. Will you answer the question?
Mr. SELSAM. I will have to decline.
The CHAIRMAN. I will then direct the witness to
answer the question.
Mr. SELSAM. I decline.
Senator WELKER. Perhaps this is repetition. If it
is, I am responsible for it. You have been an educator since your
graduation. from college, I take it. Where have you taught? Where was
your first assignment as an educator?
Mr. SELSAM. American University of Beirut, Syria.
Senator WELKER. Where next?
Mr. SELSAM. Columbia University.
Page 782
Senator WELKER. And at both of these institutions
what did you teach?
Mr. SELSAM. English at the first and philosophy at
the second.
Senator WELKER. From the second institution where
did you go?
Mr. SELSAM. Brooklyn College.
Senator WELKER. Did you teach philosophy at
Brooklyn College?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes; I did.
Senator WELKER. And any other subjects?
Mr. SELSAM. No.
Senator WELKER. From Brooklyn College where did
you go?
Mr. SELSAM. I have already declined to answer that
question.
Senator WELKER. Now, a moment ago you stated that
I threatened you. As a matter of fact, those are the identical
questions that I asked you in executive session a few moments ago. Is
that not correct?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes. Then you–
Senator WELKER. Do you call it a threat?
Mr. SELSAM. No. You drew inferences from my
invoking the fifth amendment.
Senator WELKER. I merely told you that you had
opened up the subject matter, that you told us where you had taught and
that, as a matter of law, you could not call a stopping point once you
opened up the subject matter of where you had taught. I believe that is
the rule of law as announced in many cases very familiar to your able
attorney, sir. Is that correct, if you know?
Mr. SELSAM. Which is correct? Is it a matter of
law?
Senator WELKER. In executive session a few moments
ago before opening up this matter to the public, I took you over your
teaching career. After we left, I think it was Brooklyn College, I then
asked you where you next taught and then you took advantage of the
fifth amendment and refused to answer. Now, is that the threat that you
want the American people to think that I used upon you?
Mr. SELSAM. That is not the question at all.
Senator WELKER. Sir?
Mr. SELSAM. That is not the issue that came up.
Senator WELKER. That is not the issue that came
up?
Mr. SELSAM. The question was I had no right to
invoke the fifth amendment after having told where I had taught at
certain times in the past.
Senator WELKER. I thought I was being very fair to
you, Mr. Witness. Maybe I am not right on the law, but I feel that I
am, that once you open up the subject matter you are not permitted to
call a stopping point in your testimony.
Once again, as part of my interrogation, are you
as of this moment a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. I decline to answer again for the same
reasons I have used heretofore.
Senator WELKER. If
you are not a member of the
Communist Party, why don't you stand up and say, "No, Senator Welker; I
am not a member of the Communist Party?" What is wrong with that
answer?
Mr. SELSAM. That is not sufficient protection, Mr.
Senator.
Senator WELKER. It is not sufficient protection?
Mr. SELSAM. Because, as you know, as well as I do,
witnesses could be found who for one reason or another, through one
influence or another, would bear false witness against anybody.
Page 783
Senator WELKER. You think that witnesses might be
called to testify against you, then?
Mr.. SELSAM. It is not impossible.
Senator WELKER. It is not impossible? Then I take
it from your answer that you do not believe in the judicial system of
our country, that a man is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty
beyond a reasonable doubt?
Mr. SELSAM. Nothing of the kind. I simply maintain
that sometimes witnesses bear false witness.
Senator WELKER. If your philosophy is true, then,
Mr. Witness, there would never be anybody in the courtroom. They would
never testify, if under oath you are afraid that someone might come up
and testify, commit perjury against you. That is a fair assumption; is
it not?
Mr. SELSAM. The fifth amendment was put into the
Constitution precisely to protect the liberties of American citizens
from having to bear witness against themselves.
Senator WELKER. I am quite convinced that the
fifth amendment is not put in there to hurt you at all. It is merely to
protect you. And, if you should answer this committee that you have not
been a member of the Communist Party, I am convinced that your answer
would be logical and you have no reason whatsoever to take advantage of
the fifth amendment. Your reason for using the fifth amendment is only
this : That you are at this very moment and have been for years an
active member of the Communist Party. Is that true?
Mr. SELSAM. That is not a question to me. That is
your inference.
Senator WELKER. Sir?
Mr. SELSAM. I refuse to answer.
Senator WELKER. Under the grounds of the fifth
amendment?
Mr. SELSAM. Yes; precisely.
Senator WELKER. Have you ever attended any
Communist cell meetings in any place?
Mr. SELSAM. I would decline to answer again.
Senator WELKER. Do you consider yourself a
liberal?
Mr. SELSAM. That would involve definitions of
terms which would be rather complicated.
Senator WELKER. Well, I realize that it would, but
I would be glad to listen to your definition of a liberal, whether it
gets to the point of communism or socialism or anything of that sort.
Mr. SELSAM. Are you asking me to define a
liberal,, to say whether I am a liberal?
Senator WELKER. Yes. Do you consider yourself a
liberal?
Mr. SELSAM. I would rather not get into lengthy
analyses. I have written about some such subjects in my books.
Senator WELKER. Do you consider yourself to be a
member of the Communist Party?
Mr. SELSAM. That is the same question I have
already refused to answer several times.
Senator WELKER. I realize that. I have no further
questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Morris?
Mr. MORRIS. I have no further questions.
The CHAIRMAN. There are no further questions. The
witness will stand. aside.
Page 784
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